Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 February 26

= February 26 =

in car Cameras
Does anyone know of an in car camera available in the UK that is compatable with Apple Mac computers please?85.211.204.66 (talk) 07:40, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Polaroid Cube is what I use for mountain biking. You can get a dash-cam mount for it, I believe, for use in the car. It uses a micro-SD, which you can plug in to your Mac for storage (with an adapter, which generally comes with a micro-SD).  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  13:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

How should it be done ?
For years when thinking of people using a bow and arrow, I always thought that one had the arrow rest on the side of the bow and not crossed over. What I mean is, being right handed, I would pull back the string with my right hand, holding the bow with my left, and the arrow would rest on the thumb of my left hand, and against the right hand side of the bow as I looked at it, but only recently have I noticed a lot of archers put the arrow over through the space between the bow and string, and if right handed, it is resting against the left hand side of the bow - all this time I had never noticed this. If You do not get what I mean, consider the scene where Rambo shoots the North Vietnamese officer near the Waterfall after he had killed the girl helping Rambo - Stallone uses his bow left handed, but the arrow crosses over the other side, and rests against the right hand edge of the bow as he would look at it, and I wonder if this is the way all archers do it, or can they choose, and is there a reason for crossing the arrow over ? Thanks, Chris the Russian Christopher Lilly  12:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You may find these videos interesting: and  RomanSpa (talk) 12:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * One of my roles at work is an archery instructor, for which I hold a qualification from the Grand National Archery Society, the governing body of the sport in the UK. I don't think I've ever seen a right-handed archer shoot from the right hand side of the bow, although a novice might find this intuitive, it's not how it's done. Alansplodge (talk) 13:14, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly. In the old days of bow and arrow warfare, the left hand always carried the bow, and the right hand was the one to draw the arrow and fire it. Bringing it up from the left hand side, and steadying the aim using the bow itself, was more intuitive. It would take longer to do so if trying to fire from the right hand side.  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  13:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It may also depend on the style of bow involved. Though not myself a toxophilist, I recall (based on reading and on conversations with a friend who is an advanced archer) that some traditional Oriental bows, (Thumb release bows, for example) need the arrow placed on the opposite side to traditional European bows. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 14:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Quite right. All the images on our Kyūdō (Japanese archery) page show the arrow being drawm from the "wrong" (to Western eyes) side of the bow. Alansplodge (talk) 14:50, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I had a quick Google for some pictures of medieval archers; some like this one show the conventional draw with the arrow to the left of the bow, while others like this show the arrow to the right. It's possible that the artist didn't know anything about archery of course. I've seen several archers shooting traditional longbows; there is no arrow rest, the arrow rests on the knuckles of the bow hand which is protected by a leather glove. Alansplodge (talk) 16:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I stand corrected, and Thank You All who responded. What amazed me most, is not necessarily that this is the way it is normally done, but rather that, in 47 years, I had simply not noticed. The thing is, 11 years ago we did Archery at a camp in the Hutt Valley, North of Wellington, and I must have used the bow and arrow the way I normally thought it should be done, with the arrow touching the right hand side of the bow, and hit nothing, but no one corrected me, and I have never heard any mention of the way shown was how it was supposed to be done, although I do admit I have done very little archery, and have certainly never been formerly taught. These images of like Errol Flynn, Orlando Bloom and others I had seen years ago, as well of course of Stallone, but had simply never noticed, and yet I guess this way could make sense, as then the arrow will not go off a bit to the right as it might the way I would do it. Some day I might give Archery a proper go and find all this out. Thanks Again. Chris the Russian Christopher Lilly  11:09, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Extinguishing fires in tall buildings
So the The Marina Torch caught fire recently, yet nobody died, moreover it appears nobody was injured. How are fires like this extinguished on tall buildings? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The first line of defense against fires in tall buildings is manual containment by fire extinguisher; then a ceiling-mounted fire sprinkler sprays water on fires severe enough to trigger the sprinkler mechanism (the temperature necessary to cause the sprinkler to spray ranges from 100 F/38 C to 625 F/329 C). The fire suppression fluid is usually water, sprayed or released in a deluge, but carbon dioxide, Halon or other fire suppression agents are used in spaces where electrical and high-value computer or medical equipment are located where water could create considerable damage on its own.  The drawback to these, of course, is that they work by depriving fires of oxygen, and can asphyxiate people in the area where they are used.


 * During or after the local fire suppression methods are used, Fire fighters spray large, dense streams of water into the areas of these buildings accessible by spray hoses (which can direct streams of water far higher than the tallest ladders available), using water from fireplugs or tanker fire engines as sources of water for the pumps carried by most fire engines. If fire fighters can access the floor or floors on fire, a large bore pipe with a fire hose fitting on it known as a standpipe can supply dense streams of water to fire hoses brought up to the floor.  Many tall buildings already have coiled fire hoses attached to large bore water pipes, stored in glass-faced red metal boxes. loupgarous (talk) 20:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Awesome answer loupgarous - really impressed with the level of detail... gaz hiley  12:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Seven people were treated for smoke inhalation in that one. But yeah, could've been worse. Fire has done some truly unbelievable damage to at least a couple of skyscrapers. Good work from these guys. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:53, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Internet Charity Company
How can I create an internet charity company, without a home and a place address? I’m happy just to have a bank account and some e-mailed documents to prove that the internet charity company is mine… I wish to work in it, for it… I understand Wikipedians cannot provide legal advice, I would be happy with basic information or basic knowledge. Whatever advice you all provide, it will just be a background knowledge for me; so that I know what to do in the near future… -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC))
 * No matter where you are, there are going to be laws about how charities are to be set up. There's no escaping a visit with your lawyer. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I know, I just can't afford one, and don't want to even in the near future because I'm not gonna do anything bad... My friends done it all by themselves, that was years back. I'm recalling and matching with the information I receive now. I tried to guide the other guy, it's just, there is a saying, 'no one can do it better than myself', something like this... -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC))
 * ... and I'm sorry but I wouldn't donate to your charity without an address and some confirmation that it was genuine (such as a listing on an official website in your country). You might find a few internet users willing to send funds to an unknown bank account, but probably not many, unless you create a very convincing web presence.    D b f i r s   23:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm happy you mentioned this, large sum donaters are not allowed in my charity company. Per people; have to donate out of their 'free will'... no more I can say... -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC))
 * Not even to a Nigerian princess who depends on the kindness of strangers? Shame on you. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * lol. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC))
 * Russell.mo, I wonder if the charity has anything to do with super-girls and vibrators, or girls and super-vibrators, or something like that. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  10:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ammm, } You didn't call me by my nickname. The last word of my name is not in plural, it states I'm 'unique'   -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC))
 * The best way to do it is to advertise on Google (or make a website), then write on it your bank account details, including online banking account username and password, and then you'll see the money flow in(to our bank accounts).  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  14:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If I'm thinking what I'm thinking, this could be an idea... Though I must say. I'm not aware of your system... -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC))
 * If you can tell us what country you live in, we might be able to find info on how to register a charity or non-profit organization in that country. In the USA, a PO box and some paperwork might be enough. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you thank you thank you!!!
 * I'm stuck in a third world country, I hate this country and its people, I'm ashamed to be from here. I would like to keep the name of this country I'm currently in 'discreet' in other words. If I open a company here, the first person would rob me is the government employee. Police and government employees are worse then thieves/gangsters/mafias here.
 * I'm currently doing something (writing a book) and 1 year 4 months late... I just about managed to fix my English (because of you all). I can't get out of this country until I finish this book. I have to finish this book (which is not finishing), then I have to learn how to make a website(s) and a software(s), might have to learn how to create a building(s) structure using a software (not sure). Once the book is published and learning and making is complete, then I can get out of this country. Only with the book money...
 * I'm eager to open up a charity company first in UK then in U.S.A but as far as I'm aware, my next stop will be U.S.A. All I know for now, I want to do a lot of thing. I feel like I'm deteriorating before my age, I don't know what to do... I'm restless. The main reason why I'm so eager to open up a company, I want to copyright my company names worldwide asap, but I don't have a base in UK. I have one in U.S.A, just a home address, in Detroit, Michigan, Rochester Hills; in this place they don't allow you without having an actual place and bill records... Plus apparently you can't copyright worldwide from their... The solicitor asks $2000 plus this documents, plus $120 fee just to meet up. This guy is paying for my accommodation right now, this is the 5th year running, I've been a burden to him, I don't want him to spend extras on/for me... I would be happy just to copyright the names worldwide including the books asap for now at minimal cost. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 20:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC))


 * A donation has been made in your name to the Human Fund. Justin15w (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

So first you ask Reference_desk/Computing how to make money on the Internet - then how to set up a charity on the Internet.

Bottom line here is that either (a) you'll be breaking some law someplace or (b) you'll have to come up with an idea that's cleverer than anyone else's or (c) you'll have to work very hard. There really isn't some magical way of printing money just because the word "Internet" is in there somewhere. If you're thinking of earning money for yourself via a charity website, then you would need to be skimming money from whatever contributions are being made to cover your own expenses. There are legitimate organizations that do that - they employ people to run these funds. But you're starting this from the wrong end. Step #1 is to find some compelling problem in the world that can be solved with money...feeding the poor on the streets of some major city, for example. Step #2 is to figure out how you're going to turn money into food for those people and how you're going to distribute the food. Steps #3 though about #20 are other things along those lines - and right at the very VERY end are "Step #99: How do I set up a website?" and "Step #100: How much (if any) of the money I raised can be used to pay me for my efforts?"...so get questions 1 through 98 solved, and then come back and ask.

Meanwhile, how can you LEGITIMATELY make money on the Internet? It's definitely possible - but the answer isn't often directly related to "being on the Internet" - it's making a business that incidentally happens to use the Internet. So, for example, my Wife and I "make money from the Internet" (in a sense). We designed some model buildings, figured out how to make them from laser cut plywood, went to a local hackerspace and used their laser cutter to make prototypes, used the prototypes to run a campaign on Kickstarter to crowd-fund the purchase of a $10,000 machine and the materials and postage to make some "rewards" for our backers....and *THEN* after a couple of years of hard work, we have a business selling our models on the Internet. Arguably, we "made money on the Internet" - but we did it as a rather conventional manufacturing business that just happens to sell it's product on the Internet rather than through a brick-and-mortar store.

There are exceptions - you could come up with some radically new take on social networking or invent a new way for people to exchange information online...but you'll need to actually make it work, so you'd need lots of programming and web design skills.

But this isn't "free money from the Internet" and it's certainly not a "get rich quick" scheme (although we have made close to a quarter million dollars over the past two and a half years). It took skill, artistry, and LOTS of hard work and business cleverness.

A good example of someone who DID make a pile of money was a guy who had the bright idea to put up a 1000x1000 pixel blank picture up on his web site, and sell the pixels within it for $1 each. So people could spend $1000 and get a 10 pixel x 100 pixel space to put their company logo or $100 to put a tiny button up there that linked to their home page. He ended up selling all of the million pixels and made a million dollars for his clever idea. But the point is that he needed the clever idea..and the million pixel image idea has already been done and it won't work again.

There was another guy who started off with a red paperclip and started a web site where he'd swap his paperclip for something else...then swap whatever he got for something else...over and over until he wound up with a house! He actually succeeded too! Another very clever idea that won't work more than once.

But those ideas are few and far between, and most of them fail miserably. So perhaps you could come up with something as clever as the red paperclip or the million pixel image - but you'd have to be astoundingly clever and very, very lucky. Certainly if any of us came up with anything that clever, we'd be pushing it right now - and certainly not telling you about it!

The Internet isn't so much different from "The Real World" - you can try panhandling, you can become a criminal, you can get very, very lucky or you can work hard...and working entails either getting a job with some employer, or coming up with an idea that you can turn into a job (as my wife and I did). Now, asking someone else for an idea is kinda silly. If someone had a great idea for an easy way to earn money that was legal and earned enough to be worthwhile, they'd almost certainly do it themselves rather than telling you how to do it.

So the bottom line is, you're either going to be begging, stealing, lucky or working...and working requires that you think up something for yourself. Since we're not going to help you with the first two things, and we probably can't help you with the last one - you're pretty much going to have to figure it out yourself...so study hard, stay in school, think about doing something else that nobody else has done.

SteveBaker (talk) 19:05, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Paragraph 1: I won't break any laws. I've learnt a lot, tried my best a lot, failed performing satanic activities. Its not in my genes. Unless of course you provoke me to the point where God punishes you instead discreetly during living as well as after death! Thanks for the ideas, something to rethink about in my spare time.
 * Paragraph 2: I've done a research on this, check out the 3D printing (machine) business, see if you can get into it...might interest you and your family member. Apparently its the current trend, took over turkey with its business... There is also 3D food service, unrelated to your profession. Also 4D printing in its first stage of developing process, and unrelated to your profession, at this stage.
 * I don't have programming and web design skills, I have thought of this before... I do know what you mean, i.e., hard work and effort needs to be put in. I'm suffering for the last 1 year and 4 months. I feel like my brain has become liquid water... I don't have astonishing ideas. I do wish to do something... -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 21:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC))


 * This is getting *WAY* off-topic - but 3D printing is currently *FAR* too slow for our business volume/pricing. It can take 20 minutes to make a relatively small plastic object.   I do actually own a couple of 3D printers - so I know a good deal about them.  We'd need to invest in a hundred of them to get the kind of production volume we'd need - and the kind that we could afford 100 of are temperamental, fussy machines that need calibration, tweaking and repairs at a rate that would leave me spending all of my days fixing them!  That said, the kind that use liquid polymer and expose it with a laser or a bright TV projector are getting very interesting...they stand a chance of being fast enough - but they have interesting problems of their own.   To make money with 3D printers (for manufacturing as opposed to prototyping), the items you make have to sell for a ton of money - and small plastic things generally don't sell for much.   However, there is perhaps money in 3D printing highly customized things that couldn't be mass-produced...stuff like making 3D models from CAT scans for the medical market, or making replicas of archeological artifacts that are too fragile to handle...that kind of thing.  SteveBaker (talk) 22:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * What the original poster seems to really want is crowdfunding. This would place the legal onus of determining whether or not his purposes were sufficiently worthy of funding on the specific crowdfunding organization concerned.  Several not-for-profit Star Trek episodes for public (usually YouTube) viewing have been produced with the copyright owner's permission with funds raised by crowdfunding, as has a full-length motion picture based on the short-lived television series Veronica Mars (that project overshot its goal of $2,000,000 - 91,585 backers pledged $5,702,153 toward that project as of this writing).


 * SteveBaker's criticisms of the idea per se are on point; what one would have to do is actually find a price/market niche in which one could make money actually printing 3D objects on a one-off or small batch basis for customers, establishing a reputation for good work and value for money.


 * Steve's right in that mass-production is not (at present) the ideal or even a plausible application for 3D printing technology; when automated sintering or dramatically cheaper machining of METALS becomes possible as a 3D process, that'll be a horse of a different color. Probably a zebra, to begin with (in other words, the metal objects we're talking about here will have to be of very high value, but capable of being made either from sintered metal or by some numerically-controlled machining process much more profitable to operate, than those already being used on the open market).


 * 3D food service, also suggested by SteveBaker, is also an intriguing area for development, because of an push to unionize restaurant labor across the country combined with dramatic increases in labor costs to restaurants because of the mandatory healthcare legislation in the United States of America. If the Federal government and Big Labor insist on pricing restaurant labor out of the reach of American diners (who will stop dining out as often as they do if the prices of prepared meals double or triple), then 3D food service to dramatically cut down on the number of workers needed to operate a restaurant could be an idea whose time has come.


 * Original poster, if you can convince one of the several crowdfunding Web sites to meet your requirements of anonymity and secured banking off-shore from your own country, that would be your best bet. Whether they'll do that for you or not is between you and them. loupgarous (talk) 21:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

, : Yes Yes Yes! I'm looking for a 'crowd fund' kind of thing, because its for the people, I want them to build it up for themselves... A quiving issue I have though, i.e., for which type of people I should open...? Upper/middle/lower class. E.g., if I demand for say £20/$40, I'll have less people who can benifit the most from the services, and if I demand for say £5/$10 - £20/$40 less will benifit; I want the supporters to benifit equivalant amount; less people (middle/lower class) is the requirement. The charity company I wish to open, its very complicated... Anyways, Crowdfunding, what Vfrickey stated, I believe they will pressurise me for results, what I don't want...

Can you guys please please please help me with the 'copyright worldwide' problem I have for now? I know for a fact the socilitor is lying... You can do it with PO Box anywhere in the world. My friends done it in UK... And when my guy from U.S.A told me what the solicitor and others said, baffled me... The solicitor he visited apparently said 'you need to have a place first, then the bill records of 10 months, company funding/capital and backup money/assets and many craps... Some of it might be required, probably if you are opening a 'private limited company' or so, but for a 'limited company' and 'charity company' - impossible! I just wanna copyright the names for now. Crowdfunding system will be the ultimate option, if my book doesn't suffice. I wish for my bases to be in UK and or Canada. I can't breathe in U.S.A, I have to breathe from my mouth there, just like the place I'm currently in now... If I can direct the person I have in U.S.A to visit certain places near where he lives (as you guys guide) he can collect information/documents/cost and notify me... (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 07:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC))

-- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 06:15, 3 March 2015 (UTC))

Calculation method help
Need help with correct method for calculating this:

I have membership id (which might have multiple members in it) and member id which represents an individual member of an account. I am trying to calculate average deposit / deposit date for memberships as well as for individual members.

example table below:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.107.33.122 (talk) 22:21, 26 February 2015 UTC


 * If I understand your table correctly, for the average "Deposit Amount" you just multiply column 4 by column 2, add up these products, then divide by the total of column 2. This is easy to do in a spreadsheet such as Excel, and you can do exactly the same with dates because Excel stores them as a number of days since the start of the epoch.  Your table risks confusing Membership ID with Member ID.  I would use clearer headers for the columns such as "Membership type" and "Number of members".  A "Member ID" is usually a unique identifier for the member, but perhaps you store that elsewhere?    D b f i r s   23:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. on member ID it means that there is a group id named membership ID and then this group has multiple members in it referenced by a unique id: member ID. The members might make some deposit and then I would like to calculate average deposit per date at membership level and member level. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.107.33.122 (talk) 23:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * You asked above for average deposit and average date. These are easy to calculate as explained above.  To find the average deposit per date, you would need to sort by date, then do the calculation on each date separately.  I'm still not clear what you mean by at membership level and member level.  If my calculation is not what you need, perhaps someone else can understand what you require?    D b f i r s   23:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Is this information in a database? Are you asking how to write SQL code along the lines of

SELECT membership_id, member_id, deposit_date, AVG(deposit_amount) AS "Average daily deposit per member" FROM my_table GROUP BY membership_id, member_id, deposit_date; SELECT membership_id, deposit_date, AVG(deposit_amount) AS "Average daily deposit per group" FROM my_table GROUP BY membership_id, deposit_date;
 * , or are you asking how to do it by hand? -- ToE 01:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Caveat: Code looks good to me, but not tested.
 * P.S. This assumes that membership_id = 121, member_id = 1 is a different member than membership_id = 679, member_id = 1. -- ToE 01:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. Your data is boring. No member made more than one deposit on a single day, and the only membership group with more than one deposit on the same day is 679, which on one day had two deposits ... of the same size. -- ToE 01:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)