Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 February 28

= February 28 =

Steam engine explosions
I was recently reading some historical fiction from the era of the invention of steam locomotives. In the book, they suggest that many enterprising and foolhardy entrepreneurs tried to copy the early steam engines, and that this often led to tragic consequences ranging from scalding burns to devastating boiler explosions. While I'm sure steam engines can be very dangerous, I'm suspicious that the novel is exaggerating the frequency of such accidents for dramatic effect. The novel makes it seem like most of the people who tried to copy the early engines killed themselves. Were there a large number of boiler explosions and other deadly accidents in the early days of locomotive engineering? Dragons flight (talk) 05:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * List of boiler explosions.--Shantavira|feed me 09:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, boiler explosions states that in the UK, there were 122 locomotive boiler explosions in the 19th century, but only 15 in the 20th. Depending on the type of safety valve, some early train drivers (engineers) used to add weights to the safety valve lever, or screw it down past the proper setting to get more boiler pressure which sometimes caused explosions. Widneymanor (talk) 09:45, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * See also safety valve Widneymanor (talk) 09:52, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, the important thing, from a safety POV, is that the pressure relief valve always fails in an open position, and that the steam/boiling water vented has a safe place to leak, out without hitting anyone. StuRat (talk) 06:03, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Brunel’s SS Great Britain steam pressure was only 5 psi. Q: Why, when is was know that the higher the pressure the greater the engine's efficiency, did he not use higher pressures?. A: Live steam is very dangerous and the metallurgical science to build good strong riveted boilers and good steam joints and gaskets was in still in it infancy.  By the 20th century, there were regulations inforced on boiler, gaskets, stuffing boxes etc., and better engineering reduced both the fatalities and improved the reliability. Thus, making steam engines  an essential  prime mover, and making horses,  wind and water power redundant. So in answer to the OP's question. Early steam engines were very indeed very dangerous to be around with only a few accidents ever getting recorded.  --Aspro (talk) 14:41, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You were doing fine up to the last sentence, but I call citation needed on the claim that "only a few" of the accidents were ever recorded. --70.49.169.244 (talk) 17:58, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I find it confusing. Are you saying basically "They were really dangerous, but most of the explosions weren't recorded", or "They were really dangerous, but the records show that explosions somehow still didn't happen very often", or something else?  I'm leaning toward the most-weren't-recorded interpretation, but I wonder how you (or anyone) would know this.  Nyttend (talk) 18:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * One can't really prove a negative. Given the lack of regulatory agencies like the NTSB or OSHA in the 19th century, boiler explosions might indeed not be recorded unless they made the press or even if recorded, by a company, for example, not released to the general public.  Obviously that's just reasoning from common sense, but not evidence from which we can conclude that there indeed were a large number of unreported accidents. μηδείς (talk) 19:24, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly: They did not have | Occupational Safety and Health laws in those days. One had Mad Hatters (Lewis Carol) poisoned by mercury etc. A factory owner did not publicize unfortunate events.--Aspro (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There were inquests and newspapers though. Boiler Explosions: Later 19th Century Response and Control tells the story of the mix of statutory and commercial regulation (including the Manchester Association for the Prevention of Boiler Explosions), that was introduced as the century progressed. In the end, it came down to the fact that you couldn't get your boiler insured unless it was properly and regularly inspected and had the latest safety features built in. Alansplodge (talk) 22:44, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There may not have been an NTSB or OSHA, but the Railway Inspectorate was established in 1840 and locomotive boiler explosions in the UK would have fallen under its purview. --70.49.169.244 (talk) 16:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

When is season 2 of Orange is the new black being released on dvd?

 * Moved to the entertainment desk by LongHairedFop (talk) 19:09, 28 February 2015 (UTC)