Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 June 17

= June 17 =

Pregnancy by deception?
Is it a crime anywhere to mislead someone in to pregnancy. For example, a partner sabotaging contraceptives. Is it like an assault? If the guy does it, then obviously the woman can get the thing aborted. But if it's a woman who does it to a man, where does he stand. He obviously can't get her chained by the cops and have the foetus extracted because he didn't want it.

Seems like guys get a rough deal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.113.235 (talk • contribs) 13:31, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd think in some jurisdictions "violation of an oral contract" would be the charge, which is civil, not criminal (so would have a fine, not jail). However, proving the case would be quite difficult.  They'd need a "smoking gun", like a text to a friend where the woman reveals the plan.


 * There is also "criminal fraud", but that charge would likely only be used if it could be proven a woman intentionally got pregnant by some rich guy, while telling him she was on birth control, in order to get access to his money. StuRat (talk) 13:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * It can be a rough deal going both ways. In some of the United States, a rapist can get custody to the child of his victim.  Dismas |(talk) 14:38, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The only way to avoid this danger is to avoid heterosexual intercourse outside of marriage. Note that I don't advocate limiting sex to marriage, but extramarital sex does come with risks (as, to a lesser degree, does marital sex).  Women face risks, too, if they become pregnant.  Abortion itself involves risks to health and can take a psychological toll.  It is also true that relations between the sexes are not symmetrical.  For example, heterosexual women face a higher risk of death or injury from a violent partner than heterosexual men.  Marco polo (talk) 15:18, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Your comment seems to assume that such a case couldn't happen when people are married, or that married = wanting (more) children, neither of which seems true on the face of it. Better to avoid sex altogether unless you want a kid then MChesterMC (talk) 08:00, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it's difficult for a convicted sexual offender to win custody. Chasing links from that blog post, it appears the real issue is men accused of rape, but not convicted, filing for custody. It's not clear that anything can or should be done about that. The presumption of innocence is pretty important. At most you could require a lower standard of proof for denial of custody than for a felony conviction, which seems to be what some of the proposed legislation is about. -- BenRG (talk) 01:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * An ancient example involved the woman Tamar, who deceived her father-in-law Judah. The account is recorded in Genesis 38.  Jehovah's Witnesses have published a discussion about it at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004047.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 15:36, 17 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is precedent for requiring men who used condoms, even just for oral sex, to pay support if the women impregnates herself with the sperm, see Louisiana v. Frissard. Searching google news isn't very helpful, but you can look at other cases on the search terms "man forced to pay child support woman sabotage condom".  The basic reasoning is twofold. The act of sex itself is voluntary and always has a finite risk of pregnancy, whether the woman sabotages the birth control or it fails on its own.  The second issue is that the purpose of child support is to support the child, who is an innocent party in the circumstances, and the state has  an interest in protecting his rights and preventing him from becoming a burden on the public. μηδείς (talk) 17:56, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Saudi sewage
What happens to Saudi sewage waste water? Where does it get discharged? 78.146.97.42 (talk) 20:47, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
 * We have an Water supply and sanitation in Saudi Arabia article, which mentions dumping of raw sewage in various places and a recent move towards treatment and reuse. If someone has updated info, please update the article. DMacks (talk) 21:02, 17 June 2015 (UTC)