Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 May 28

= May 28 =

Halloween and Autumn
Why is Halloween in autumn?

117.120.18.136 (talk) 05:15, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * It's not, not Down Here anyway. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  05:29, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * It's scary. The crops die and winter comes. Nobody (aside from Australians, of course) wonders about ghosts and skeletons in spring. That's a time to live. See Halloween for details. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:31, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Why wouldn't it be? It's not necessarily tied to some other season.  That said, it's roots are based around harvest festivals of pagans.  Harvesting is normally done in late summer and autumn.  I'm a bit confused by the question and not really sure why you would think it should be in some other season.  Dismas |(talk) 05:35, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't read the question as suggesting they chose the wrong season for Halloween to fall in. The OP just wants to know why it is so.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  05:41, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It's the only time you can get pumpkins. KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( もしもし！ ) 06:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep. If we're going with why it has to stay in autumn, it gets dark sooner than it used to, so kids with early bedtimes can still have some gloomy fun, without freezing to actual death. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Boring reason: All Hallows' Eve is in autumn because All Hallows' Day is in autumn. Less boring reason: on the old Celtic calendar it's the beginning of the winter half of the year, when the life of summer is fading and thoughts turn to mortality. —Tamfang (talk) 07:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * So why is All Hallows Day (All Saints Day to us) in Autumn?  Saints' days are usually the day of their death (their birthday in Christ) but John the Baptist has two - his Nativity on 24 June and his Decollation on 29 August.   And why 8 December for the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary and 8 September for her nativity? 156.61.250.250 (talk) 08:41, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Nativity comes roughly 9 months after conception. Same reason that Christmas Day is 9 months after the Annunciation (or Lady Day, 25 March).  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:30, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * We knew that already .  The question is why that particular pair of days rather than one of the other possible 364 pairs. 156.61.250.250 (talk) 11:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * What Dismas said above. The original occasion was the pre-Christian New Year in North West Europe. Speculatively because of the fact that it was Autumn, the days were lengthening and Winter was approaching, questions of mortality came to mind, and it came to be thought that the world of the afterlife then drew closest to ours, such that we should think of, and might be able to communicate to/with, the dead: certain formal celebrations and rites were performed. Surviving relics of such beliefs survive in modern secular culture in the form of ghost story-telling traditions, use of scary turnip- or pumpkin-carved lanterns, various customs such as trick-or-treating, use of bonfires (now mostly transferred in England to by a few days to November 5th) and so on (as well as debatably accurate revivals of the original celebrations by Neo-pagans such as myself).
 * When Christianity arrived, it attempted to subsume such beliefs into its own worldview (as it did with other pagan celebrations around the Winter Solstice - Christmas, the Spring Equinox - Easter, and so on.) This particular re-interpretation was called All Saints Day as a parallel to the Pagans' all departed spirits, or in older terminology All Hallows Day, preceded by All Hallows Eve aka Halloween: note that "e'en" is an old variant of the word even(ing) and that the Pagan day (as for example the Jewish and Muslim day in ritual terms, began at the previous sunset. in Mexico, the not dissimilar though presumably independent pagan customs surrounding the Day of the Dead have similarly been partially subsumed by All Saints Day. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 13:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Natural Disasters in Christmas
Are there any hurricanes, tornadoes or bushfires in Christmas?

117.120.18.136 (talk) 05:19, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, it's just another day, as far as Earth cares. These tornadoes happened around the same time the TV said the world was ending. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:24, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Here's the Black Christmas. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:26, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * And then the hurricane. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:27, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Cyclone Tracy. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  05:28, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 2005 massive earthquake (knocking the Earth out of orbit) and tsunami, on Dec. 26th. Does that count? Maybe it was a day late for Christmas, but it ruined my birthday (Dec. 27th). KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( もしもし！ ) 06:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * "knocking the Earth out of orbit" is a bit of an exaggeration. 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami is the link we needed.  The orbit changed EXCEEDINGLY subtly...less than a centimeter.  Energy releases of all kinds alter our orbit minutely - so this was far from special in that regard.  It happened in 2004, not 2005 - and it was the day after Xmas in the time zone where it happened and even though it was an incredible earthquake, the energy released was only about half of the largest ever nuclear weapon explosion.  With around a quarter million people dead or missing as a direct result - the fate of your birthday is hardly relevant. This is a reference desk, not a tabloid newspaper, please stick to the facts. SteveBaker (talk) 06:56, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I got the year wrong. Sorry about that, Mr. Angry. Now shall we get back to the original question? (And I mentioned my birthday because I was in the f**king area at the time).  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( もしもし！ ) 07:17, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not angry - I'm merely concerned that contributors here take just a little care to get their facts straight and to avoid exaggeration. What you wrote was almost entirely untrue - and you CLEARLY hadn't even tried to find a decent link for your answer or you'd have been reminded of the correct year.  I'm just asking that you slow down a little and do some basic fact-checking. SteveBaker (talk) 17:27, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * 2003 Bam earthquake - ok so it was a day late but the OP said "in Christmas" not "on Christmas" or "at Christmas"...--TammyMoet (talk) 11:04, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * For what's it worth, Boxing Day is inextricably linked to Christmas Day, at least to those who observe it. Can't return gifts you didn't get, and generally can't find Christmas gifts that cheap before. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:24, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * For me and quite a lot of people where I am, "Boxing Day" and "Test" are inextricably linked. And : did you hear what happened the only time they tried to play Test Cricket in Canada? Everything went fine on the first day, but when the players came back for day two, they found the Zamboni had ruined the pitch. --Shirt58 (talk) 07:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Nice. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:31, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * You have WP:MEH'D my small but erudite joke without providing a suitably witty riposte,  and I demand satisfaction in this obliviously ongoing fued. [sic] --Shirt58 (talk) 13:25, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * "Nice" isn't "meh". It's basically the opposite. Not sure what game we're playing here, but as far as the only sport that matters goes, there wasn't an Ultimate Fighter tournament where one side advanced to both finals till Canada naturally destroyed Australia. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:22, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Which Christmas? There's an Island in Australia, and in the US alone we have


 * 1) Christmas, Gila County, Arizona
 * 2) Christmas, Orange County, Florida
 * 3) Christmas, Lawrence County, Kentucky
 * 4) Christmas, Alger County, Michigan
 * 5) Christmas, Bolivar County, Mississippi
 * 6) Christmas City, Utah County, Utah
 * 7) Christmas Cove, Lincoln County, Maine
 * 8) Christmas Valley, Lake County, Oregon


 * μηδείς (talk) 22:05, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't pretend to be stupid. That's for those who play the sophomore par excellence. Remember? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:37, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Stupid (or pretending) or not, a Michigan guy shot another dead in Christmas, then crashed his car and died about fifteen minutes later near Wetmore last July. It wasn't exactly a disaster, but disastrous for at least two families. See also Christmas in July. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:07, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Given the OP said "in Christmas" I thought the research was both interesting, and in good faith. Orange County, Florida has certainly been hit by hurricanes and tornadoes.  Just nothing recent. Oddly enough, the OP's an Aussie. μηδείς (talk) 00:25, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't mind it. If it's not what he meant, he can easily ignore it. If it happens to be, it's very helpful. For those just strolling by, it's a free lesson in something they probably wouldn't have looked for themselves. Even trivial, loosely-related knowledge is power. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:33, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

The OP's question is ambiguous. However, if μηδείς is correct in identifying the OP as "an Aussie" then the question is almost certainly about the Australian Territory of Christmas Island particularly as that is the location of Christmas Island Immigration Reception and Processing Centre and, in Australia, for over a decade, hardly a week can go by without that island being named in the press in connection with immigration policy and issues. As to cyclones & hurricanes, Christmas Island is subject to tropical cyclones as the weather section in the article explains. If you want more details the Australian Bureau of Meteorology may have more details as may the equivalent authority in Republic of Indonesia due to the island's remoteness from the Australian mainland and proximity to Indonesia. As to bushfires, the island is 10 degrees south of the equator and has a climate significantly different to mainland Australia. A tropical climate with less temperature variation. It is not noted for bushfires although I believe I recollect that there were some limited fires (not necessarily bushfires) several years ago when some detainees escaped the detention centre. Lanyon (talk) 05:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Except that I have never once heard Christmas Island referred to as just "Christmas". Much more likely, imo, is that the OP is not a native English speaker.  A native would be more likely to ask "Have there been any hurricanes, tornadoes or bushfires at Christmas?".  The OP may well be residing in Australia, but is probably from a country that uses the words 'hurricane' and 'tornado', and that does not include Australia.  We call them 'cyclones'.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:33, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Do US courts treat black murderers differently from white murderers?
In the U.S, particularly Southern states like Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, are black people more like to get executed for the homicide of a white person. Than, lets say a white man killing a black person. Especially if the white person argues self defence. And is there some law stipulates juries must be an equal mix, rather than all white (or all black vs a white person) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.140.226 (talk) 08:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest this is hatted (by someone who knows how) as it is not a request for a factual answer. This is not a chat room designed to debate possible racial prejudice... gaz hiley  10:31, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks like a request for factual information to me - a breakdown of sentencing for homicides according to the ethnicity of perpetrator and victim, and laws on jury composition. DuncanHill (talk) 10:54, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Well each to their own DuncanHill, but as a frequent viewer of this desk this question has a tinge of chat/debate about it... "are black people more like to get executed" - how can we factually respond to that? We can answer what the number of each ethnicity is executed, from a factual viewpoint, but to answer the question are they more 'likely' (I assume that is what the OP meant) is a matter of opinion... Surely it depends on the level of the crime and priors etc? The judicial system should hopefully look past the colour of someone's skin and base the result purely on the facts... Frankly, I am amazed this "question" has had as much response as it has... gaz hiley  09:22, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Read the responses below, read the studies referred to in them. It is a legitimate question, being studied by serious institutions. DuncanHill (talk) 16:56, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * See also μηδείς's comments DuncanHill - I've been around here long enough to recognise an attempt to stir up debate... While the studies may be legit, this "question" (especially the op's attempt to keep the provocative title) is not - it's an attempt to cause trouble... gaz hiley  10:01, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * In what way is the title provocative? Just repeatedly bleating that it is without bothering to say why doesn't make it so. DuncanHill (talk) 12:06, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * OK, well to start with, Amnesty International USA refer to a study by Yale University saying that "African-American defendants receive the death penalty at three times the rate of white defendants in cases where the victims are white". Our article Race and crime in the United States states "Federal Prosecutors of African American and Hispanic defendants are twice as likely to push for mandatory minimum sentences, leading to longer sentences and disparities in incarceration rates for federal offenses", referenced to Univ. of Michigan Law & Economics, Empirical Legal Studies Center. DuncanHill (talk) 10:59, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Our article Jury selection in the United States has some interesting points, including the Duke University study "black defendants (81%) are significantly more likely than whites (66%) to be convicted when there are no potential black jurors in the pool. Even with only one black member of the jury pool, conviction rates are almost identical (71% for blacks and 73% for whites). While 64% of cases had at least one black potential juror in the pool, only 28% of all trials had one or more black members on the seated jury." DuncanHill (talk) 11:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Report by the Equal Justice Initiative - "Some district attorney’s offices explicitly train prosecutors to exclude racial minorities from jury service and teach them how to mask racial bias to avoid a finding that anti-discrimination laws have been violated." DuncanHill (talk) 11:06, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * And we have an article All-white jury. DuncanHill (talk) 11:08, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * List of people executed in Alabama, List of people executed in Mississippi and Capital punishment in Florida might be worth a look. One has a race column. But no, they don't provide a full picture, including who was not executed, and who had shadows of doubt in their trials. It's something, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:15, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

"For decades, scholars have examined the influence of race on capital punishment. The research literature suggests that the race of the defendant does not have a consistent impact on the death penalty. A few studies report that death is more likely to be imposed against black defendants than white defendants, but most do not. In contrast, the race of the victim does have a consistent impact on the death penalty the vast majority of studies report that death is more likely to be imposed on behalf of white victims, and particularly white female victims."
 * Here is one summary of the research (keep in mind though that not everyone will necessarily agree with it, and there are considerable time and place variations):

- Scott Phillips


 * For the various avenues through which racial bias is introduced in the process see this paper and references in it. For jury selection issues in particular see this paper and cited references. For pioneering and extensive work in the area see papers by David C. Baldus and George Woodworth (Google scholar search). Also see the 1987 Supreme Court case McCleskey v. Kemp, in which death penalty was almost overturned based on their research about death penalty in Georgia. Abecedare (talk) 18:12, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The OP IP is a known sock who's been blocked by User talk:JzG for his disruptive behavior. Rather than just close this I am simply giving a more neutral name, which steps on no ones answers. μηδείς (talk) 04:05, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * JzG lied in his block rationale. DuncanHill (talk) 12:06, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If you have problem with the block, I suggest you take it to the admin's talk page, and to ANI if you don't get a satisfactory response rather then accusing people of lying in places they may very well never see. Nil Einne (talk) 22:38, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I did, he has ignored my question. I also commented on the blocked IP's talk page, pinging JzG, and he has ignored that, and another editor's concerns. JzG has a history of this sort of thing, as I am sure you are well aware. DuncanHill (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No I'm not. All I do know is this isn't the place to deal with it. As I already said, if you aren't happy with JzG's response, the place to deal with it is ANI. Or arbcom if you don't get a satisfactory result from ANI. It's definitely not here. In fact your comment here is likely to negatively affect any attempt to deal with the issue. Nil Einne (talk) 23:06, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and the emailed threats from other admins. DuncanHill (talk) 23:12, 30 May 2015 (UTC)