Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 August 5

= August 5 =

pigeons
is it immoral to feed the pigeons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.205.144.62 (talk) 11:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Probably not. It can be annoying for other people due to the bird's behaviour and defecation, and it's a somewhat futile exercise, merely extending slightly the Malthusian limit on the population. Many arguments can be made that there are better uses for resources. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:58, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There was a TV news report not long ago which said the complaints about pigeons being "rats with wings" are unfounded. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:17, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * This may contains some useful information in helping you to make a decision. -- Jayron 32 13:23, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Morality is a tricky matter - and it's unlikely to ever come up with a clear answer. For example, there are racing pigeons...homing pigeons...fancy show pigeons.   It's clearly OK to feed them!   If you're constrained to considering only wild pigeons, you have to know that pigeons are sometimes consumed as food (eg Pigeon pie) - and you might therefore consider feeding them to get a plumper bird, or to attract them to make them easier to catch.  Even if you further constrain the problem to exclude those kinds of activities, I doubt that anyone would complain about you feeding pigeons if you lived 50 miles from the nearest other person - the degree of problems you'd cause for your far distant neighbors shouldn't be objectionable - and you might even draw some of the local pigeon population away from their homes and actually reduce your neighbors problems.  Even in a city center, where pigeon infestations are a problem, you could probably come up with some contrived situation in which you'd benefit mankind to some degree by doing this.  That said, there are obviously situations where by doing this, you'd be inconveniencing others to an unacceptable degree.  This is a nuanced and subtle question. SteveBaker (talk) 19:25, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * In some locations, it is illegal to feed the pigeons - read Save the Trafalgar Square Pigeons for a classic example. It seems reasonable to argue more generally that it is immoral to break the law, in which case it would be immoral to feed the pigeons in that specific location. Wymspen (talk) 19:33, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've got a mental picture now, of The Bird Woman being thrown to the ground, cuffed, and rushed away in a police lorry. And her fine would be a lot more than tuppence a bag. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:21, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Rules like the Trafalgar Square ban (for instance) is motivated by a combination of concerns - environmental/health/hygiene/public amenity, as well as freeing up the square for commercial reasons (renting it out for concerts and promotional events for example). Even if one does not believe breaking the law is not in itself amoral, the fact that a democratically elected authority has made a judgment call and said banning pigeons will benefit the public generally is a good indication that following the rule benefits the public more than the loss of whatever pleasure people get from feeding the pigeons.
 * And if you have bags of stale bread lying around, why not feed the ducks and geese at the nearby park instead? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:23, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * cue Tom Lehrer —Tamfang (talk) 03:36, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * And maybe we'll do in a squirrel or two. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * And why not, as it just takes a smigine. --Aspro (talk) 02:45, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "I feed the pigeons, I sometimes feed the sparrows too. It gives me a sense of enormous well-being." See Felicific calculus. Tevildo (talk) 11:39, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The Australians built a rabbit - proof fence to contain the creatures after they were unwisely imported (they have no natural predators).  The grey squirrels are vermin who are threatening the native red squirrels with extinction, but unfortunately the bounty scheme for killing them has been discontinued.   You can, however, be jailed for failing to give your Japanese knotweed to a licensed waste handler after you cut it down. 86.149.13.241 (talk) 10:57, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The dingo is a natural predator of the rabbit. Akld guy (talk) 20:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * But farmers don't like dingoes. See e.g. this discussion of using dingoes as pest control. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, the bounty is sorely missed and ought to be reintroduced. As one only had to present the squirrel's brush at the police station to claim one's bounty of a shilling (or alternatively two shot gun cartridges – yes the local police station handed out shot gun cartridges in those days) one still had the rest of the squirrel for its pelt and squirrel pie. Update the shilling bounty to modern day values (with the addition of  organically raised squirrel meat) and you'll have me running around the local parks hunting down Squirrel Nutkin wherever I might find him. Then, the Uk  Gray Squirrel   problem would evaporate (or rather get eaten away). Uhm, this is making me feel hungry. Think I have look to see what is left over in the fridge – waist not want not as they say .--Aspro (talk) 21:29, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * How much did two shotgun shells cost? How much is a shilling in 2016 money? Was it silver? So Australia was like the world's largest Runescape game? (with excellent post-8K graphics..) Common shells only, right? Not that that's a problem, people getting 2 shells for 1 squirrel tail can't be choosers (shells that are good for squirrels I assume, smaller birdshot pellet shells that I guess might have reduced powder percentage and/or size and thus lethality against humans compared to the common 12-gauge 9 pellet 2.5-3.5 inch long almost 1 inch wide double aught buckshot boom shells our "bogans" shoot deer with) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:08, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Clearly, what's needed once the dingoes have wiped out the rabbits, is to find a creature that likes to kill dingoes. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:17, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * We know all too well about the "solution" to one problem becoming a far worse problem in its own right: see Cane toads in Australia. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What you need is something that will eat the toads. Are they tasty? Maybe they could be harvested for making Fried Toad Legs. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:57, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * In a curious predatory loop, the toads are sometimes eaten on the roads by the Volkswagen Rabbit. Akld guy (talk) 00:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC)