Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 December 31

= December 31 =

portantina granducale cosimo III - FIRENZE
I posted the following question yesterday in Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities. Since I am not satisfied with the answers received, I decided to broaden the search for other WPs as well: Etan J. Tal(talk) 11:35, 31 December 2016 (UTC)



Why are the handles curved sideways? The same object is displayed today in the Museo dellopera del Duomo (Firenze), but with additional rear handles which together form an arc. Etan J. Tal(talk) 16:11, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it's not an optical illusion, and they really curve upwards ? StuRat (talk) 17:33, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I shot this photo (which is of inferior quality) in which one can clearly see the full arc (front and back handles) Portantina granducale cosimo III - FIRENZE.JPG Etan J. Tal(talk) 18:07, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Relevant article: Litter (vehicle) -which doesn't answer your question. Maybe they just liked going in circles. --2606:A000:4C0C:E200:2931:7BD1:EE28:2B6E (talk) 19:01, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * WAG: in a grid or network of particularly narrow streets (or palace corridors), it would make it easier to go around a left-turn corner: to make a tight right turn one would have to take 3 lefts, but perhaps the local intersections were sufficiently close together that this was not a problem. Alternatively, perhaps there was just one particular left turn near (in?) the owner's palace, for which the chair was specifically designed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.62.241 (talk) 20:24, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Just guessing, but maybe they were for carrying up and down spiral staircases? That might explain why curvature in one direction could be an advantage. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:38, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * But what about coming back? Etan J. Tal(talk) 20:40, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I suppose the occupant would have to sit facing backwards while being carried the other direction. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Inspecting Cosimo's figure it is hardly possible to imagine how he sits on this chair without a security belt while his servants carry him in the VERY steep staircase of the dome... Etan J. Tal(talk) 20:57, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * They had one very huge and one much shorter servant, always on the same end of the same half-set of handles. Most of the spiral stairs I know of are set clock-wise going up. Is it the case for the stairs for the cupola at Santa Maria del Fiore ? --Askedonty (talk) 21:00, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Anti-clockwise. See File:Scale interne per l'ascesa alla cupola del duomo di firenze 04.JPG. -- zzuuzz (talk) 22:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Lots of amusing speculation - but isn't it more likely that the wood has warped over time? Wymspen (talk) 13:21, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It is not exactly a speculation, for the use in that particular staircase is described in Italian in the tag of the upper image and also in the image name of the upper image. Nevertheless the tag of the lower image does no longer mention its use. It is evident that this device was used only inside a building privately and not in public, for in public the grandduke would have used a much more representative litter. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 15:56, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
 * More speculation: Perhaps it is possible to interchange the two handles for downstairs, or the grandduke would walk downstairs on his own. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 16:11, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Warped to the same curvature on both handles? Clarityfiend (talk) 22:34, 31 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Looking at Google images for "sedan chairs" I see plenty of illustrations, but none that look like this. Mostly the sticks are straight, sometimes curved upward, sometimes inward toward each other. Is it possible this thing was disassembled at some point and then reassembled incorrectly? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:31, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Another link: . The fourth image shows the portatina and carries the description: "portantina. Con aste ricurve per permettere l'ascesa o la discesa alla cupola.", which translates to "with curved bars to permit ascent to or descent from the dome". Hope that's sufficient to dispel any further doubts. --Wrongfilter (talk) 13:04, 1 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Bingo! I thank all participants for their cooperation. I can only smile imagining the Gran Duke carried downwards while sitting "in the wrong direction" (facing backwards), possibly helped by one very tall and one very short servants. Etan J. Tal(talk) 14:05, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note that the reference to a grandduke fades away more and more: The upper tag had the inscription "Portantina granducale, sec XVIII - la portantina fu costruita per consentire al Granduca, forse Cosimo III, la salta alla Cupola di Santa Maria del Fiore" (Grand Ducal sedan, XVIII century - the sedan was built to allow the Grand Duke, perhaps Cosimo III, the ascent to the Dome of Santa Maria del Fiore). The lower tag had the inscription "Portantina granducale, XVIII secolo" (The Grand duke's carrying chair, 18th century). The online description in Wrongfilter's link does not mention any relation to Cosimo or another grandduke any more. This seems to imply that it was built and used to carry whoever would or could not climb the steps on his own (clerics, noblemen, wealthy tourists). --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 15:29, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Friends' dog terrified of me only
My Friends' huge dog begins to shiver and bark violently whenever I come to visit, thus has to be locked outside until I leave. According to my friends, only me and the girl's father get this reaction. With ALL other people he is friendly. Now, I'm a nice guy, I'm not scared of the dog, I speak softly, try to gain his confidence etc. but to no avail. What is happening, and where can I find references to this behavior? Gil_mo (talk) 23:22, 31 December 2016 (UTC)


 * One possible explanation is that you and the father have some common feature to someone who hurt or threatened the dog at some point. Do you both wear hats, have beards, etc? I'm not suggesting your friends hurt their dog. But if they adopted it, then the dog could have come across someone before the adoption. I volunteer at an animal shelter and see this with dogs every so often. Sometimes, it will be because I'm male. Sometimes because I have a hat on. Etc. One of my own dogs was fearful of men when we adopted her and it took her ~2 weeks before I could pet her without her shying away from me.  See this for example.  It may be possible for your friend's dog to grow accustomed to you.  † dismas †|(talk) 23:43, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah I knew someone who had a dog they said was afraid of men in hats or perhaps it was men in hats and gumboots because they were a former farm dog and the farmer didn't treat them very well. Nil Einne (talk) 03:21, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * One of my friends has a rescued street dog from Tunisia (now living in Switzerland). No one knows what happened to her as a puppy, but to this day (three years later) she is prone to barking and hostility towards Arab men and women wearing headscarves.  There is something both embarrassing and hilarious about how "racist" that dog is.  Dragons flight (talk) 14:39, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, dogs' ability to recognize people isn't that good until close enough to smell you. The neighbor dog, who knows me well enough, seems to all of a sudden think I'm an evil intruder if I put on a coat or walk with a limp. StuRat (talk) 05:59, 1 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Dismas' explanation seems the best, and I have witnessed it. See exposure therapy. μηδείς (talk) 00:57, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I also concur with Dismas (and StuRat): dogs easily develop such idiosyncratic dislikes. A few days ago I was chatting to a neighbor walking two dogs, and he mentioned that the golden retriever was frightened of anyone with a walking stick, because once someone with a stick had bent down to pet her and the stick had toppled over and landed (only lightly) on her neck. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.62.241 (talk) 05:20, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

USS Mahopac ATA 196
I found my old Basic Military Requirements manual. On page 134 it says a ATA is a ocean tug. On page 135 it says ocean tugs are named for prominent Indian tribes. I served aboard the Mahopac in 1967-68. We did not have the type of weapon as described on the Mahopac page. We had 2 twin mounted 20MM cannons. We mounted them on the flying bridge. One on the port side and one on the starboard side. The ship did have a 3 inch 50 caliber originally.

My manual: Basic Military Requirements Bureau of Naval Personnel Rate Training Manual Navpers 10054-C — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itsfun001 (talk • contribs) 23:26, 31 December 2016 (UTC)


 * This should really go on the article's talk page. In any case, NavSource lists both. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:28, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have added the 20 mm guns to the article, together with some other details, using User:Clarityfiend's link above as a reference. The tug is named after the town of Mahopac, New York, "an Algonquin word with an unknown meaning", although this book says it translates as "bear-flats".  Alansplodge (talk) 14:24, 2 January 2017 (UTC)