Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 December 8

= December 8 =

Oldest combat soldier
Who was the oldest real-life (not fictional) soldier (officer or enlisted, from any branch of any nation's armed forces) to see combat (and by "see" I mean actively participate)? I know Bull Simons was 52 when he landed in Son Tay -- anyone beat his record? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 11:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Jean Thurel - known as the oldest soldier in Europe, who served into his 90s. Wymspen (talk) 12:09, 8 December 2016 (UTC)


 * But did he actually fight when in his 90s? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 13:23, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Theodore Roosevelt Jr. famously landed on Normandy carrying a cane at the ripe old age of 56. uhhlive (talk) 14:15, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Henry Webber beat that by 11 years of age, and did it several decades earlier, dying in active combat during WWI at the age of 67. -- Jayron 32 14:28, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Jean Thurel was fighting during active combat at the age of 88, spent his entire career as a front-line private (refusing to ever accept a promotion) and was on active duty for a total of 75 years. He died of natural causes at 106.  I'd be shocked to find any regular soldier who beats his record.  -- Jayron 32 14:31, 8 December 2016 (UTC) ed note: Oops.  I missed that he was already cited.  Apologies to Wymspen.  But my response does answer the question of his last active combat.  His article indicates he carried a weapon into battle at 88 -- Jayron 32 14:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Although the British Army can't beat that, Lt Col Jasper Myers Richardson of the Royal Garrison Artillery was killed in action "just days from his 69th birthday". He has recently displaced Lieutenant Henry Webber of the South Lancashire Regiment, who was killed in 1916 at the age of 68 and had previously been believed to be the oldest British combat fatality.  Oops. Sorry Jayron, I missed your note about Henry Webber above, it must be infectious!  Alansplodge (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't know if the OP would judge him to fit his criteria, but there's Enrico Dandolo at 90.John Z (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how much fighting Dandalo did, having been blind for 30 years at that point. Kinda hard to swing a sword and hit someone.  I have no doubt he was present and "led" his people to war, but I'm quite sure once the steel started swinging, he was hardly parrying attacks... Dandalo is one of the most impressive political leaders in history, but I wouldn't call him a "soldier".  -- Jayron 32 01:41, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not exactly sure how much fighting he did either, but for another crusader example, William V, Marquess of Montferrat was possibly around 80 when he was take prisoner in battle. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, all! This is VERY impressive, to say the least!  Now, a related question: Who was the oldest person to serve or see combat in an elite or special unit of any nation's armed forces (marines, paratroopers, commandos, mountain troops, etc.)? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 01:14, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Being that the concept of special forces has its origins in the Second World War when it was much harder to lie about one's age, I don't think you're going to find anybody especially elderly. I checked all the well known commanders I could think of, and they were in their 30s or 40s at most: David Stirling, Vladimir Peniakoff, Lord Lovat, John Frost, Otto Skorzeny, William Orlando Darby et al were all comparative youngsters. Alansplodge (talk) 00:55, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would make sense, given that the physical fitness requirements for these units are also so much higher than for regular troops. So, was Bull Simons the oldest commando to see combat? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 02:30, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * For those unfamiliar (like me), that's Colonel Arthur D. Simons, who was 52 when he led Operation Ivory Coast in 1970. I found this 2010 report which describes "...a decision by Whitehall [ie British Government] officials to end a practice called "continuance", which allows special forces soldiers to serve up to the age of 45 – five years longer than their regular Army counterparts". Alansplodge (talk) 09:22, 10 December 2016 (UTC)


 * William Hiseland (according to his article) fought at 89 and died at 112, if his birthdate is accurate. —Tamfang (talk) 07:51, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Good find. Alansplodge (talk) 09:25, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * He's linked in Jean Thurel. —Tamfang (talk) 19:09, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You can “refuse to ever accept a promotion” an continue to serve in military for an extended time? I didn't know that's how it worked.  &#x2013; b_jonas 14:42, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * "The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." —Tamfang (talk) 04:20, 5 February 2017 (UTC)