Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 February 28

= February 28 =

Coffee
When was coffee first consumed in Europe (and in France in particular)? 2601:646:8E01:515D:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 02:50, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * According to the article on the French language wiki, it was first introduced in Marseille in 1644. The first coffee shop dates to 1665. The drink became faddish when there was a famous visit by an envoy of the Ottoman sultan in 1669, creating a fashion for all things Turkish, including coffee. This was half a century after coffee was first introduced in Europe, by Venician merchants around 1615. It reached England and the Netherlands around the 1650s, so France was a bit late to the new drinking craze. --Xuxl (talk) 07:06, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Le café et les cafés à Paris (1644-1693) by Jean Leclant agrees with the above and has some more detail, if you can read French. The first coffee shop opened in Paris in 1657 by a chap called Jean de Thévenot. Alansplodge (talk) 12:23, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There is a mention of a coffee house in Istanbul in 1555 - geographically in Europe, though not culturally so. The difficulty with this question is that most information is about the public sale of coffee, and there may well have been individuals drinking it in private well before that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.174.93 (talk) 12:35, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * We beat the Frogs by opening the first coffee house in London in 1652 (they serve a very palatable pint of Shepherd Neame in there today). The Ottoman Empire extended over large swathes of eastern Europe and a coffee house opened in Istanbul (which is in Europe) in 1554. Coffee and qahwa: How a drink for Arab mystics went global. Alansplodge (talk) 12:23, 28 February 2016


 * I have yet to make it to Europe... &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 04:59, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So where then HAVE you been consumed? -- Jayron 32 20:59, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So, mid-17th century? Thanks! 2601:646:8E01:515D:986D:7DB1:2770:DAA7 (talk) 06:57, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, unless you include the Islamic part of Europe which was about a century ahead (in coffee terms at any rate). Alansplodge (talk) 09:04, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Geography
Question: The wiki article on Scilly--southwestern UK, pop 3,000 lists Scilly as "one of the COUNTRIES of the UK. But wikipedia also UK entry identifies England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland as "the four COUNNTRIES of the UK"  A bit new to your georefs, I'm wondering what country the islands might be in, if not the UK.  Silly are islands, no doubt; however JW might recognized that being a part of England does not make one independent.    71.248.162.175 (talk) 14:30, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Do you mean county? Is so, the Isles of Scilly form part of the ceremonial county of Cornwall, although it has a separate local authority with the status of a county council (to quote our article). Mikenorton (talk) 14:37, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it's part of England. The Mebyon Kernow and folk of a like mind think that Cornwall ought to be a separate Home Nation, but they're a long way from getting anybody else to take them seriously. Alansplodge (talk) 14:59, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * By the way, I'm not sure where the OP is taking his quote from. Our Isles of Scilly article starts:
 * "The Isles of Scilly (Syllan or Enesek Syllan) are an archipelago off the southwestern tip of the Cornish peninsula of Great Britain. It is the southernmost location in England and the United Kingdom, as well as the most westerly in England."  Alansplodge (talk) 15:07, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * The section Isles of Scilly says Politically, the islands are part of England, one of the four countries of the United Kingdom. Maybe that's what the OP saw. But it means that England, not Scilly, is one of the countries. Loraof (talk) 15:28, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I suppose we Britons should apologise for having one of the most complicated national nomenclatures in existence. Our article, Terminology of the British Isles, attempts to untangle the knot. Alansplodge (talk) 21:21, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Odd link in Wikipedia
I found an odd link in Wikipedia that surely does not belong there. If you search the article, "Sodomy laws in the United States", then scroll down to the South Carolina links, there are two. The second link will, in fact, take you to the correct place. However, the first link takes one to a link for The Order of Nine Angels. This is a Satanic webpage, which has nothing to do with South Carolina laws. I thought that your organization would appreciate this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CDC2:CBE0:413D:5CA6:201C:B23F (talk) 22:03, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've removed the dead link - thanks for picking it up! I don't think this was malicious, just a question of a site registration expiring and the domain name being purchased by another organization. Tevildo (talk) 22:19, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * FWIW, we have an article entitled Order of Nine Angles, of which the OP's "Angels" would be an easy and understandable misreading. The article contains a link to their official website, which is I presume the same as that removed from 'Sodomy laws . . .' by Tevildo. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 14:45, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The dead link was to www.sodomy.org; this domain is now (presumably) owned by O9A, as it redirects to their site. Not to be confused with www.sodomy.com, which, I'm given to understand, redirects to a generic porn site. Tevildo (talk) 20:27, 29 February 2016 (UTC)