Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 June 17

= June 17 =

Creating a new article HELP
Hi, My article for Notheia anomala got refused by the editor and I was given some feedback on what to edit. I have done the edits - but there was no re-submit button??? Now I'm not sure how to get my article to be re-reviewed.

Icey28 (talk) 00:07, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * , you removed the "Resubmit" button with your last edit. Dismas |(talk) 00:26, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * , you're welcome. Dismas |(talk) 21:11, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Gay Gadsden Flag
I am curious if there is a flat image of the rainbow #ShootBack Gadsden flag. I have seen photos, but am looking for a flat image suitable for computer wallpaper. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 06:53, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Best I could find is . Since File:Gadsden_flag.svg is an SVG and I'm sure we have SVG rainbow flags (and actually you don't really need one), it's fairly trivial to make one. Nil Einne (talk) 09:09, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Well here I made one . Note I intentionally didn't upload it to wikipedia or commons since there's a possibility the work of combining the rainbow flag with the Gadsen flag and adding the #ShootBack hashtag is sufficiently creative etc to be eligible for copyright protection, and I have no idea who the creator is and what rights they've released it under if so. If anyone disagrees or knows more than me, I used, File:Gadsden_flag.svg and File:Gay_flag.svg to make it and in terms of any rights of mine, they are released under CC0. Nil Einne (talk) 10:11, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hm, you could've simply used one of the existing ones (and maybe add the hashtag to it). For example this one from GayPatriot. I would not recommend it... I am not sure if it means what you think it means, and I am not sure if you agree with the viewpoints of some of the people who use those flags. For more, see here and/or here. &#40;&#40;&#40;The Quixotic Potato&#41;&#41;&#41; (talk)  13:28, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That one from GayPatriot looks to be basically a cut down version of what I linked above at hausrules.us. (Although I'm a bit confused about the white part on top, maybe neither of them are the original version.) It's fairly flat but has odd colours, probably partly because it's a photo of a printed flag rather than a simple construction. Maybe also due to excessive compression/lots of compression cycles. (It being a photo seems more obvious with the version I linked to as you can see it's not entirely straight as clear from the white line.) Maybe this was enough for Medeis but I'm fussy about such things so while I'd never want to use such an image in my life, if I did want to use one I'd want something decent rather than a poor photo. Nil Einne (talk) 15:21, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * "I may disagree with what you say, but I support your right to say it, and if you have to say it, dammit, do it right, with vector graphics!" Lol, say what you will about medeis, I think she's well aware that some people will interpret this image as advocating gun-based retaliation against those who would attack gay people for being gay. This is another image involving guns and gay symbols, one that some may find more appealing. Anyway, all the more nice of you to make up a nice SVG image for public use, even if you don't personally like it :)  SemanticMantis (talk) 15:29, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Some people may interpret it as saying that you are a teabagger who is (pro-)gay, others may interpret it as advocating gun-based retaliation against those who would attack gay people for being gay. I am generally pro-free speech (there are exceptions of course), but I also believe actions have consequences (e.g. if you say or do certain things others might think you are stupid). Here is a quote attributed to Pope John Paul II: "Violence and arms can never resolve the problems of men." (and yes, I am an atheist). Some people have claimed that the terrorist in that nightclub was gay. And this is also interesting. This PDF costs 12 dollars. &#40;&#40;&#40;The Quixotic Potato&#41;&#41;&#41; (talk) 15:59, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I really don't know where you get "retaliation". It seems obvious to me, especially in context (the flag appearing a few days after the 2016 Orlando nightclub shootings), that it's about self-defense (or proper defense of another).  I suppose the symbols and words could be stretched to be about retaliation, but in context it doesn't seem like the most obvious meaning. --Trovatore (talk) 20:20, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure, I agree there are a a few different possible inferences people may draw; I was merely commenting that I think medeis can handle her own semiotics. BTW, that last paper looks interesting, here is a freely accessible copy. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:12, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thank you! &#40;&#40;&#40;The Quixotic Potato&#41;&#41;&#41; (talk) 17:19, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe it can be used to improve the homophobia article. Can you please post it on that talkpage? &#40;&#40;&#40;The Quixotic Potato&#41;&#41;&#41; (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Done, but I'm not sure how useful it will be. It's a WP:PRIMARY source right? I personally have no problem with using some primary sources to support claims in articles, but a) I don't think that's normal WP policy and b) I have absolutely no expertise in the area of homophobia research, so while I'm happy to pass on the ref, I can't help improve that article. Maybe a secondary source could be found that reports on that research paper, that would be better. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:31, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * One does not need to have any expertise in a subject to be able to improve the WP article on that subject. All one needs is interest and desire and time and the ability to track down decent sources. Sources provide the expertise.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:27, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Duly noted, however I personally only make substantive edits to articles whose topics I am already well familiar with. I mean I'm sadly familiar with homophobia, but not the scientific research on the topic. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:35, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks again! I agree. I think it can be useful as a starting point, but I know very little about this subject so I prefer to leave it to the experts. &#40;&#40;&#40;The Quixotic Potato&#41;&#41;&#41; (talk) 20:00, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, bu Nil answerered this in the first post. μηδείς (talk) 20:26, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Manchester Schoolboys U15 1960
I am iooking for any information regards to the games played between Sept/Dec 1960 by manchester boys U15 rugby team, one was against huddersfild and the other against nuneaton. any help would be gratefully recieved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brentwood20 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Elephant statue?
Is this a man-made elephant statue or just a natural stone pattern?--93.174.25.12 (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

In the context of the article - about discovering hidden cities in the Cambodian forests - it is clearly being identified as a statue. As the photographer must have got a lot closer to it than we are able to do through a photo, I see no reason to doubt that identification. 86.191.126.192 (talk) 15:54, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Here are elephants carved at Angkor Thom about 12th-13th century. It takes strong faith to suppose the pictured clump was ever a realistic elephant statue. AllBestFaith (talk) 16:08, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

pronunciation guide.
Why are the pronunciation guides you use so utterly unhelpful?? Can't you just use a more common-sensical suggestion than the unpronounceable, undecipherable symbols currently in use??? 64.20.206.10 (talk) 19:02, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * See Help talk:IPA for the official answer to this question. Tevildo (talk) 19:18, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Tevildo's link explains the policy on WP, but I am sympathetic to your frustration. I was annoyed by this at first too. But don't get mad at WP for following the international standard. If you want to get mad at anybody, get mad at the people who published your textbooks and dictionaries, for teaching you a non-standard, insular system for pronunciation guides. I admit IPA takes some time to learn, but so do all systems. I've found this web page useful for helping me learn IPA. With a little practice, you'll see it's just as easy to understand. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:43, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Tangent: I was disappointed when the OED's second edition switched to IPA. The first edition used a scheme that appears to describe many dialects at once; the second edition's IPA tells us only the Oxford pronunciation. —Tamfang (talk) 09:06, 18 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I always have to look at the IPA guide to understand a lot of the symbols as well but I can understand why they're used when I consider the many ways even basic English words are pronounced. There are so many regional differences in accent that it's difficult to use any other system with much accuracy. Dismas |(talk) 19:53, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you use Linux, BSD or a AppleMac you can install lexconvert.py, eSpeak and Python, then use  to use speech synthesis to render an approximate pronunciation. It should work on Windows as well, but I haven't tried it. LongHairedFop (talk) 20:23, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That is really cool, thanks! SemanticMantis (talk) 21:37, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Forgive a slow-witted old fogey: install it from where? —Tamfang (talk) 09:08, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Do a Web search for "lexconvert.py". --71.110.8.102 (talk) 06:13, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Wah, that's too hard. Can't I send you my computer and have you install it for me? —Tamfang (talk) 01:31, 21 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I've witnessed plenty of pointless arguments of the form "it sounds like [word]" "no, it sounds like [other word]" between speakers of dialects that pronounce the reference words differently, each of them writing with common sense and in good faith; these arguments could have been prevented by using IPA. —Tamfang (talk) 09:06, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * IPA used to annoy me until I realised that it is extremely clever. Usually (but not always) one spelling specifies the various ways a word would be pronounced by people in different parts of the English-speaking world. Thincat (talk) 09:24, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If you see a word written in a foreign alphabet you're not familiar with, and you are told this word is pronounced like the English word "bow" (or, say, "row"), can you guess how it's really pronounced? I can't, and that's why WP uses another alphabet, other than the ambiguous English one. HOTmag (talk) 07:49, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Help with targeting aboveboard charity (specific to elephants)
I have decided I want to donate to a charity that specifically helps with saving the lives of elephants. The problem is that I really don't know how to vet charities – and I am very wary of throwing away my money on crooks. I have just seen too many stories over the years of unscrupulous operators setting up charities that are either entirely money-making fronts, or, in between, those that actually do some good work, but when looked at, only some small percentage of the money is used for charitable purposes.

Can anyone advise some aboveboard charities in this area, and possibly what resources you looked at to to determine they were above-board, so I might know how to do that for myself? Thank you--108.54.152.77 (talk) 22:10, 17 June 2016 (UTC)


 * If in the US, try the Charity Navigator: . StuRat (talk) 00:32, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I want to endorse and reinforce 's recommendation here. Charity Navigator is the "gold standard" in the United States, and I invite other editors to mention similar sites in other countries. On the specific issue, I believe  that the World Wildlife Fund is a good performer.  Cullen328   Let's discuss it  05:41, 18 June 2016 (UTC)


 * In the UK the Charity Commission for England and Wales is the regulatory body for all charities - and lets you check that a charity is genuine and complaint with the rules. For what it is worth, my advice would be to support a good general conservation charity, rather than one that focuses on a single animal. Unless a whole ecosystem is protected, individual species will struggle. Wymspen (talk) 17:50, 18 June 2016 (UTC)