Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 June 5

= June 5 =

Strongest whisky/whiskey and tequila 2
I've already asked this question but I got no proper answer. Which is currently the strongest whisky (whiskey for Americans and the Irish) currently available? And the strongest tequila?--Carnby (talk) 12:31, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Everclear (alcohol)?-- Jayron 32 19:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That's what I said (rectified spirit). To tell the truth I don't know what a strict definition of whiskey and tequila excludes. Vodka? Rum? Gin? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:31, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Definitely not whisky at all. I wonder if that Polish rectified spirit is more or less the same as "Alcool 96°" sold in Italy to make domestic liquors and alcohol soaked fruit (specially cherries).--Carnby (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, Spirytus Rektyfikowany (Polish Spirit) is 96% ABV and is the same thing but is neither a whisky nor a tequila.--Ykraps (talk) 18:59, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * There are strict rules about what constitutes whisky. Scotch must be made from malted barley, fermented and distilled under certain conditions, and aged for at least three years in oak casks. Other types may have different requirements. Neat alcohol does not count as whisky. 86.191.126.192 (talk) 08:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify here; you are talking about malt whisky? Grain whisky is typically made from wheat or corn but usually also contains a small amount of both malted and un-malted barley. Scotch can be used to refer to both varieties.--Ykraps (talk) 17:53, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The rule is actually that to be called Scotch whisky it must contain malt whisky. Blends can include some grain whisky as well - but a pure grain whisky cannot legally be labelled as Scotch. 86.191.126.192 (talk) 20:12, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Where are you finding that rule? Here is a grain whisky that is clearly labeled as Scotch []. AFAIK to be called Scotch it must be distilled in Scotland.--Ykraps (talk) 20:26, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * See Scotch Whisky Regulations 2009. Despite VoteX's statement above, single grain and blended grain whiskies can be described as "Scotch Whisky". Tevildo (talk) 22:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * So it is the same as the 1988 Act with the addition of the rather confusingly named "single grain" variety, which I took to mean pure grain. Thanks--Ykraps (talk) 15:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by available? If you are the poster of this question [], you were initially discussing Bruichladdich X4, which this article [], misleads you into thinking is "available" at 92%. It is (was) not. It was distilled to 92% then diluted to 63.5% prior to maturation. This in itself is not remarkable; most whisky is diluted to between 63% and 64% at this stage in the process because that is the optimum strength to begin maturation. Most whiskies are diluted further (to around 40%-50%) before bottling but some whiskies are also available at their cask strength. If you are looking to get blind drunk then meths is what you want, if however you are looking for a good pokey, affordable, single malt; I recommend Glenfarclas 105 Cask Strength (60% ABV).--Ykraps (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The blind isn't metaphorical ("destruction of the optic nerve"). Someone once sold booze with twice the methanol of "meths" and 17 people died. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Well I don't drink alcohol at all, and my question was just because I'm a curious person. According to you, a whisky with more than 60–63% ABV doesn't exist at all.--Carnby (talk) 09:54, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * For the reasons given above, you are unlikely to find a whisky above 64% ABV but my questioning is to do with your use of the word "available": A batch of a particular whisky may have a strength of 63.5% whereas the next batch might have a strength of 60%. Once the initial batch has been consumed, it is no longer available at that strength. It is no good therefore simply searching on the internet for the strongest whisky because that whisky might not still be "available". To illustrate this better, here are two "identical" whiskies with different strengths:[] []--Ykraps (talk) 15:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I meant "available to purchase".--Carnby (talk) 11:49, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Pity you weren't asking about rum... --TammyMoet (talk) 19:57, 6 June 2016
 * I already know what was the strongest rum in the world. Anyway, no hints about the strongest tequila?--Carnby (talk) 09:54, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * 110 proof. -- Jayron 32 18:00, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I discovered a rum which is slightly stronger than Stroh: Sunset Rum (84.5% ABV).--Carnby (talk) 11:33, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Bus routes treated as railway tracks
Looking at an early twentieth - century picture of the Royal Exchange, the destination boards of the buses are familiar:

Route 6: Hackney Wick [presumably] - Victoria Park Road - Hackney Road - Bishopsgate - Bank - Cannon Street - Strand - Regent Street - Edgware Road - Shirland Road - Kilburn Lane - Kensal Rise.

Route 25: High Street, Ilford - Romford Road - Stratford Broadway - Mile End Road - Aldgate - Bank - Holborn - Oxford Street - Bond Street - Piccadilly - Grosvenor Place - Victoria.

This is essentially unchanged up to the present, although Victoria as a final destination seems to go in and out of fashion - the 73 ends there although it used to run on to Hammersmith. Indeed, I remember one sunny Sunday morning (much like today after Christmas - like temperatures) boarding one in Stoke Newington and rolling all the way to Richmond.

Do the routes of any other cities have such a distinguished pedigree? 151.224.132.45 (talk) 14:02, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note that Romford Road runs from near Ilford Station through Manor Park and Forest Gate to Maryland Point in Stratford, so it was probably Romford Rd rather than Romford itself (born and bred in Leytonstone). Alansplodge (talk) 21:55, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * See London Buses route 24 for the oldest in London. Manchester claims a bus route dating back to 1824 ???    D b f i r s   16:17, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * See New York City's Fifth and Madison Avenues Line. Began service:


 * 1832 (trolley)
 * 1886 (horse bus)
 * 1898 (electric bus)
 * 1966 ( current alignment, wait the Great Recession route shortening hasn't been reversed yet. Still kind of Downtown to Harlem like the 19th century railroad)


 * The M1, M2, M3, & M4 (Manhattan bus 1, 2, 3, & 4) "are the successors to the New York and Harlem Railroad's Fourth and Madison Avenues Line, which began operations in 1832 as the first street railway in the world". First street railway in the world, yo. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:57, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Besides a short-lived one in the 1600s, it appears that horsebuses started throughout Europe and the US around the same time (i.e. 1824 Britain, 1826 Nantes, 1828 Paris). Maybe one of them is the answer. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 08:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand the reference to railway tracks. None of these bus routes became railways, did they? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It's always the other way round.  For example, part of the old Oxford to Cambridge railway line (between Bedford and Cambridge) has been turned into an express busway.   There's talk of renewing the connection.   In the Croydon area there are various tram routes.   Some of these run along old railway lines but where they don't they may replace bus routes.   I checked the photo again this morning before reading Alansplodge's post and wrote down what I think the destination board actually said.   I've amended my comment accordingly. 151.224.132.107 (talk) 10:31, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

In terms of motor buses (rather than horse-drawn), the Sussex Motor Road Car Ltd company introduced a route between Worthing and Pulborough via Storrington in 1904. It still runs today, every hour, as Stagecoach South's "Stagecoach in the South Downs" division's Route #1. It now runs beyond Pulborough to Midhurst though. I believe it has been in continuous operation on the same route longer than any other motor bus route in England, although I don't have a reference to hand at the moment. Separately (and diverging slightly from the original question), in terms of bus routes replicating former tram routes, this is particularly the case in Brighton, where many of Brighton & Hove's most frequent routes are the successors of trolleybus routes, which are themselves the successors of pre-war Brighton Corporation Tramways routes. Hassocks 5489 (Floreat Hova!)  11:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Yep, Southdown (of the apple green livery) was a successor of Sussex Motor Road Car Ltd (back in the very early days I think). It was bought by Stagecoach as recently as 1989.  Incidentally, a few years ago Stagecoach painted one of its buses in the traditional livery to commemorate the centenary of the route.    Hassocks  5489 (Floreat Hova!)  14:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * (The comment I was replying to has disappeared.) Now I'm home and can check my books, and there's lots of info at Elleray, D. Robert (1998), A Millennium Encyclopaedia of Worthing History (ISBN 0-9533132-0-4).  p44 confirms formation in 1904 of Sussex Motor Road Car Co Ltd at the Railway Hotel in Worthing with two Clarkson steam buses operating to Pulborough via Findon, Washington and Storrington.  They merged with the newly formed Worthing Motor Ominbus Co in 1905, were succeeded in 1909 by Worthing Motor Services Ltd of Marine Parade, Worthing (first appearance of the green livery), and Southdown Motor Services was formed in 1915 from a merger of that company and two others.   Hassocks  5489 (Floreat Hova!)  20:35, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Half of the money
Apparently, in an old Spider-Man comic, a disguised Norman Osbourne hires a gang of hitmen to dispose of Spider-Man. He gives them half of the money in advance - literally. He has physically cut the dollar bills in half, giving one half to the gang, keeping one for himself. He says "You can trust me, as my half is worthless to me anyway!"

Wouldn't this be the perfect scheme to avoid either party double-crossing the other? But apparently, cutting dollar bills in half is illegal in the USA. Why is that? And would the bills still be legal tender if taped back together? J I P &#124; Talk 15:07, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * In the EU at least, as long as you can bring more than half of a Euro banknote to any European Central Bank local counter, you can get a new one to replace it, no matter if it's burned, cut in half, etc. Akseli9 (talk) 15:19, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * ( ... but not exactly half, otherwise anyone could double their money! ) I think the banks might be suspicious if they started getting thousands of taped bills/notes, but, in theory, the scheme might work, even if it involves a lot of work in taping the notes back together.    D b f i r s   16:08, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The Irish Central Bank do have a proviso on their website regarding damaged Euro notes: "The Central Bank may decide to refuse reimbursement of euro banknotes which have been intentionally mutilated or damaged". The Maltese Central Bank have the same thing here. Bisected notes as part of an illegal payment might well fall foul of that proviso.  FlowerpotmaN &middot;( t ) 16:45, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Since Spider-Man is based in the US, I'm going to reply with a US source... The Federal Reserve Bank web site, suggests that one half or more of the bill must be handed over to redeem a bill for another. So, the crooks could theoretically just go to the bank with their halves and be just as rich as if they had finished the job. Dismas |(talk) 16:49, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * This is interesting. I remember reading at some point in the past that if there was 40% to 60% of a bill remaining, including one serial number, then the US would redeem it for half value.  (That meant that they didn't have to worry about ever giving out double value for two halves.)  In which case if the crooks turned in their halves, they could get half of the total amount.  (But of course they'd also have to convince the authorities that they weren't guilty of cutting the bills.)  But if this was ever true, it obviously isn't any more.  Thanks for the reference. --69.159.60.83 (talk) 18:55, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Glad to know I'm not alone in (mis?)remembering that! —Tamfang (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I think that the Bank of England is going to knock this scam on the head - they're changing to polymer ones so nobody will have an excuse for cutting them in half.  Also it's possible that some notes still only have the number printed once - and they require a complete number before they will redeem.   The twenty pound notes I just looked at have the number twice on the back - once on the left and once on the right. 151.224.132.45 (talk) 17:11, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * See also Bank of England - Damaged and Mutilated Banknotes which suggests that half a banknote is redeemable in the UK too, but only in the case of accidental damage. Alansplodge (talk) 17:23, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't really understand what you mean "have an excuse for cutting them in half" having used polymer notes since I moved to NZ about 14 years or so ago and paper notes before then in Malaysia. Both polymer and paper notes can be cut, with a similar degree of ease. I'm fairly sure there's no good excuse for cutting either polymer or paper bank notes. It's significantly easier to tear paper notes than it is polymer, but it's fairly likely any decent central bank is going to notice the difference between a clean cut and a tear if they care to look. In addition, it's quite a lot harder to tear 100 bank notes by "accident" so even if you did tear rather than cut, I'm not sure you'll have a good excuse if the bank cared enough to ask and you aren't looking at a real cut price assassination. Especially as higher denominations are being phased out although I don't think there's ever been a circulating banknote of the pound sterling with a value higher than £100 and even that's rare because the BoE doesn't issue one. I guess you could tear each individually or perhaps a small number and then take these seperately and hope for the best but that seems like a lot of work. Perhaps the fact that paper notes are expected to tear means no one will care that much even if you come with 100 paper notes with a clean cut. On the other hand I'm not sure if they'll care that much if it's a once off even with polymer notes provided they don't think you're trying to con them in some way. Once we start to get into larger quantities (and frankly £5000 seems very low for Spider-Man) you're more likely to hit questions, but I'm still not convinced you're more like to have problems or success with paper notes than with polymer notes with the exception perhaps of regularly changing small quantities. (Since the lower frequency of such exchanges may mean you're more likely to be noticed.) Nil Einne (talk) 05:00, 8 June 2016 (UTC) Edit: Forgot to mention actually one thing with polymer notes is that while they're a lot harder to tear, they can be torn and I'm not sure it's that easy to tell the difference between a torn note and one intentional cut compared to with paper. (And if the note does end up with a small tear or nick somehow, it'll generally tear apart quite easily.) Nil Einne (talk) 05:10, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * According to Title 18, Chapter 17 of the U.S. Code, which sets out crimes related to coins and currency, anyone who "alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lighten" coins can face fines or prison time. The same goes for debasing – that is, decreasing the proportion of precious metals – in gold or silver coins struck or coined at an American mint.


 * Similarly, anyone who "mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued," can be fined or imprisoned as well.


 * These laws exist in large part to prevent counterfeiters and swindlers from altering money for nefarious purposes. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 17:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I am guessing that it was legal in Canada in the mid-twentieth century. The title character of The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz is obsessed with power, money, and land. As a very young man, he spends a summer working tables at the sort of upmarket resort where wealthy families used to decamp for the season. On his first day in the dining room, one patron tears a $100 bill in half, gives half to Duddy, and says, treat my table well and you'll get the other half at the end of the summer. The novel is set around 1950; this inflation calculator says that would be about $1000 today. Apparently there used to be a $1000 note, but no longer, and now the notes are made of polymer anyway, so cannot be torn. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 21:34, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

In the US, partially destroyed bills are still redeemable, as one person noted above. (60% of area or sufficient charred material to be identified as 60% for full value) In fact, burned bills which can be reconstructed have been redeemed. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/06/2001-06-03-money.htm is a reasonably accurate article. Collect (talk) 12:43, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Follow up question to my Africa question
1. If the man's name was in setswana, what male name in setswana means born on a Friday? 2. isn't there something in the news to legalize same sex activity in Kenya? Like how it says so in this article: https://legabibo.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/kenya-could-become-the-next-country-in-africa-to-legalize-homosexuality/50.68.118.24 (talk) 22:01, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I can't see any indication that there are Setswana names of the form "born on day-of--the-week". --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; 04:42, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you can find some names with that meaning that are used by people who use one or more of the 20+ other languages spoken in Botswana. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 19:35, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The setswana word for Friday is labotihano - which just means day five (botihano = five). That does not appear as a personal name in a Google search. Having lived in Africa I have known people named for days of the week - but usually just for Saturday and Sunday which tended to acquire specific names rather than just being numbered (Saturday being pay day, and Sunday the Lord's day). 86.191.126.192 (talk) 08:57, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * In Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Sao Tome and Guinea - Bissau, where one of (if not the) official languages is Portuguese, the days of the week are indeed numbered, but Saturday is sabado (sabbath) and Sunday domingo (the Lord's Day, as stated).  Very few European languages number the days of the week.   I personally know Ghanaians called Kwaso, Kojo, Yaw, Kofi, Adwoa, Akua, Yaa and Ama.   Some of these are more obviously related to weekday names than others. 151.224.132.107 (talk) 10:18, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * "Very few European languages number the days of the week." Not quite true. In all Slavic languages, the names for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday mean, respectively, "second", "middle", "fourth" and "fifth". — Kpalion(talk) 12:52, 10 June 2016 (UTC)