Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 May 7

= May 7 =

Statistical occurences of road signs.
Does anyone here have any statistical data on how often particular road signs are used?

I was considering what signs should be included as 'guide-book' common ones in driving guides at Wikivoyage.

My list includes some obvious ones like
 * Stop/Yield signs
 * Speed limits.
 * No entry    etc.

But it would be nice to have some statistical data for other signs which a traveller is statisticly more likely to encounter. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * you're going to have to clarify what you mean if there's any chance at people answering...what kind of statistics? as in ratio of 'stop' signs to 'yield' signs in the world? if so, this is very odd information...68.48.241.158 (talk) 11:46, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * See .  Within the past few days the government has asked local authorities to cut down the number of road signs in their area.   Motorists have suggested that this will increase the number of prosecutions - for example if the number of speed limit signs is reduced.   Currently local authorities follow a government manual of many years' standing advising on the placement of signs - the government say it will still be available for guidance. 92.23.52.169 (talk) 12:04, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * As in which signs occur the most often, the Sign resarch data linked by the other contributor is a good. Is there a comparative survey for road markings.


 * The manual you refer to is probably the Traffic Signs Manual IIRC, some of it's not been updated for some time ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

The Wikivoayge article I was initally focusing on was Driving_in_the_UK ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * but these are distinct signs, with different meanings...if there were two different kinds of signs that both mean "stop" then it might be of interest as to which style of "stop" sign you're most likely to run into...but otherwise, what's the point???68.48.241.158 (talk) 12:48, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * For more on this see . 92.23.52.169 (talk) 13:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * For anyone inclined to assemble such statistics, don't forget that terminology may differ according to country. For example, in New Zealand, "Give Way" is the sign for "Yield", "Railway Crossing" is the sign for "Railroad Crossing", and "No Exit" may be called "No Through Road" or something else elsewhere. Akld guy (talk) 21:03, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * One way to find out could be if you could find a source for the quantities of these signs manufactured annually. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:18, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Given the long lifespan of some signs, that might not help with knowing how many of each kind are actually still in use. For example, the old "HALT" signs in the UK were/are being replaced with "STOP" or "Give Way" signs - but speed limit signs dating back to the 1900's are still to be found on back roads.  So if you were able to discover that more STOP signs were manufactured than (say) 30mph signs - that wouldn't tell you anything about the ratio of the two in actual usage.  Conversely, in the USA, when the 55mph universal speed limit was imposed - and then rescinded - the manufacturing of speed limit signs mush have gone through the roof, while other sign types would not. SteveBaker (talk) 13:22, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The Road Authorities of some countries have databases that among many many other things, include every piece of signage on the roads. The Norwegian one even has a publically available APIfor extracting information. --NorwegianBluetalk 06:29, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Soap in hospital bathrooms in Beijing
Having lived in Beijing for a while something that strikes me as really bizarre is the lack of soap in the public restrooms of public hospitals. I've been to six public hospitals (these public hospitals are all considered among the best in the city) and not a single one of them had soap in the public restrooms. And for a prosperous location like Beijing I can't imagine complementary soap would be much of a financial burden.

This lack of soap in hospitals has struck me as maybe the most bizarre phenomenon I've seen in Beijing so I'm curious about this subject and would like to know the opinion of better informed. Is it that visitor hand hygiene isn't that important or is it bizarre negligence in a fairly well regulated and sophisticated city? Muzzleflash (talk) 13:07, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I often encounter a lack of lavatory paper in public lavatories, but that's not a fault on the part of the authorities - anti - social customers nick it.   You'd be surprised at the variety of things that go missing from hotel rooms, including bathrooms. 92.23.52.169 (talk) 13:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * you could probably answer that as well as anyone...if you google, there's all kinds of culture shock stuff related to china and bathroom hygiene etc...I suspect there are sinks with soap in closer proximity to patients etc that doctors etc use....68.48.241.158 (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * What? You mean complete bathrooms go missing from hotels? THats a new one.--178.107.62.251 (talk) 03:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/hotels/galleries/Unusual-items-stolen-from-hotels/luxury-bathroom/ 81.132.106.10 (talk) 09:42, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm in Hangzhou, which is going to be hosting the next G20 summit (so, not Beijing, but certainly comparable). I don't think it's going to be just one single thing, but a combination of what everyone above has said and more.  I could write a few paragraphs on this, but in short, most of the working folk I've seen generally don't live in the sort of conditions that would lead one to expect free soap $(yes, cities have a lot of rich people, but a lot of folks aren't rich)$, there is a general apathy regarding a lot of regulations, and most people simply just aren't concerned at all with the prospect of losing their jobs.  I've also started to suspect that the understanding of germ theory is a bit different here than in the west $(and that's ignoring the people I've met who distrust "western" evidence-based medicine completely)$, and have concerns with how much style seems to matter more than substance $(though I had those in America as well)$.  It's entirely possible that the hospital decided it was better to spend the money on trying to look clean than on actually being clean, or that whoever was supposed to put in the soap dispensers had enough Guanxi with a health inspector to not "need" to, or that everyone treated it the same as the various nominal smoking bans, or that there actually has been almost no demand for free soap dispensers.  Probably a combination of all those.  Ian.thomson (talk) 11:08, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


 * There's a difference between the 100 hospitals of a city (Beijing has 113 public hospitals) ignoring regulations to provide soap and the countless thousands of restaurants and bars of a city ignoring a smoking ban. The former would show a huge failure of the regulatory state in Beijing (that's not typical in the developed parts of China), the latter shows a lack of culture of obeying the law among restaurant owners and ordinary people (something typical all around China). So the lack of soap in public hospitals for visitors in Beijing and all of China is a product of central policy. That's the part that strikes me as weird. Muzzleflash (talk) 13:03, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Your concern seems topical. I googled "hospital toilet hand-washing liquid" in Chinese and came across this article, which says that health authorities plan to require the 22 City-run hospitals in Beijing to start providing hand-washing liquid and toilet paper in toilets within the year. It also mentions that Chaoyang Hospital already had hand-washing liquid and has recently implemented toilet paper too! Going by this article, the main issue seemed to have been cost. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:58, 11 May 2016 (UTC)