Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 October 12

= October 12 =

Trump vs Clinton, Julian Assange
Does Assange prefer that Donald Trump wins the usa presidential election over Hillary Clinton?144.35.45.79 (talk) 22:46, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hard to say. Here is a news piece saying An election between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is like being asked to choose between "cholera or gonorrhea," Julian Assange said in an interview aired Wednesday.

"Personally, I would prefer neither," the WikiLeaks founder and frontman told Amy Goodman of "Democracy Now."
 * Hope that helps, SemanticMantis (talk) 22:49, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that as an Australian, whether or not he has a preference doesn't have much bearing on the matter, as his preference is not taken into account in the election itself. See Voting rights in the United States, or more specifically Right of foreigners to vote in the United States, which notes that "Since 1996, a federal law has prohibited non-citizens from voting in federal elections,"  This status has actually existed (as noted in that article) since 1926, as effectively all 50 states individually had by then banned non-citizens from voting in the U.S.  -- Jayron 32 22:54, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * An individual vote has got to be the least powerful way to influence a US Presidential election. Assange seems to be trying to influence the election in Trumps favor, as our article on him states: 'On 22 July 2016, WikiLeaks released emails and files sent from or received by Democratic National Committee (DNC). The New York Times reported that "Assange accused Mrs. Clinton of having been among those pushing to indict him..." and that he had timed the release to coincide with the 2016 Democratic National Convention.' StuRat (talk) 23:02, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * And in one sentence, you've just captured the entirety of what is wrong with the U.S. election system. The stark reality of your first statement, and the implications of it for U.S. democracy, has left me in an existential crisis that will require at least 3 beers to dig out of... -- Jayron 32 23:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The degree to which US elections are influenced by other factors, such as Gerrymandering, voter suppression, campaign donations, and now, foreign interference, may be higher than elsewhere, but the vote of an individual isn't very likely to influence the results of an election anywhere. Even if it did come down to one vote deciding the election, there's enough gray area for it to end up in the courts when it's that close, due to hanging chads, etc.   StuRat (talk) 23:13, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Just to be completely fair on that point, it isn't "now, foreign influence" which has been a major concern, unless by "now" you mean "since before the U.S. even had their first presidential election". Foreign influence over U.S. electoral process is extensively covered as a MAJOR concern among the writers of the U.S. constitution, and is a major topic of discourse in The Federalist Papers.  SO much so it was basically the entire subject of the first four non-introductory Federalist Papers (Nos. 2, 3, 4, and 5), as well as forming a significant discourse in other papers, i.e. the repeated references to the Partitions of Poland as being an undesirous effect of foreign influence on the security of a nation-state (Nos. 14, 19, 22, 39).  -- Jayron 32 23:23, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * It was always a concern, yes, but hackers now have a tool which could quite possible change the outcome of an election (at least if Trump was a serious candidate and the race was close). StuRat (talk) 23:29, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, to be fair, people have always had the tools to swing U.S. elections. Those tools tended to be green and have pictures of dead politicians on them. See United States presidential election, 1960 for a famous recent example.  Also see Corrupt Bargain for no less than 3 other examples.  -- Jayron 32 23:41, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Are those examples of foreign influence deciding an election ? And 1960 = recent ? :-) StuRat (talk) 00:05, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd be more concerned that the various hacks the Russians are doing are merely tests before they hack into the vote-counting machines in battleground states and change the results in order to elect whatever sap they want in whatever office. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)


 * One theory I heard on talk radio is that Assange thinks he might get a better deal if Trump wins. Why Assange would think that way, was not clear. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:00, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The theory would be that Hillary would continue the policies of Obama, while with Trump he would get a new "roll of the dice". StuRat (talk) 23:04, 12 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I see very few substantive and relevant references here, and a few users with multiple comments and no references. I'd remind us all this is WP:NOTAFORUM. SemanticMantis (talk) 00:20, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Get back to us after you've provided a citation for your claim about wet roads vs. dry roads. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:24, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok I did. Now stop being so pointy and defensive, and try to make a single well-referenced and helpful post in the remainder of this week. I have made several just today, you might want to review them and learn from those who have experience in providing scholarly references. While you're at it, you might consider following your own advice about bickering in front of OP. SemanticMantis (talk) 02:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm following your lead. You don't want to talk about it on your talk page, and you claim it's perfectly OK to bicker in from of the OP, so there ya are. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:08, 13 October 2016 (UTC)


 * No, you didn't. You provided 4 refs that don't support your claim, wasting everyone's time.  Instead of criticizing everyone else, try to avoid making bad contributions yourself, such as the one at Science.   StuRat (talk) 13:33, 13 October 2016 (UTC)