Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2017 August 17

= August 17 =

Proof of Identity Documents
I've been asked to show someone some documents as proof of my identity, but on some of them - my National Insurance Card, Birth Certificate for example, have on them in bold capital letters "This is not proof of identity". So my question is how can someone use something as ID when it says on it it is not or cannot be used as ID ?Scotius (talk) 11:37, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Simple – they can't. The only valid proof of ID is a passport or other national ID card. --Viennese Waltz 11:56, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It would help if we knew which authority in which country was asking for "proof of identity". --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:17, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Why do you believe that documents which are explicitly marked as "NOT proof of identity", have any relevance to proof of identity? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  12:20, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Many companies etc. accept them as proof of identity regardless of this disclaimer, which probably make people think they actually are proof of identity. 77.218.255.248 (talk) 12:37, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

The country is the UK & I've been asked by the bank, various people for interviews & for to enroll on various training courses. I just assumed that if the disclaimer is on the ID for a reason. Scotius (talk) 12:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah OK. Surprised they've asked you for a National Insurance card, rather than number. Most people don't have a card; certainly I lost mine 20+ years ago and don't think I've ever been asked for it, thank goodness. I think you're saying this is when asked by prospective employers. They're more likely to be assessing your eligibility to work in the UK than your identity. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * In the UK there is now a general requirement for a form of ID with a photo (hence a passport or a modern photo driving licence - though there are others that can be obtained). It is too easy to obtain (or forge) documents without a photo, and then present them as proof of identity - so you now need to show something with a photo that can be compared with your actual face. Wymspen (talk) 14:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The disclaimer on things like school id cards and birth certificates let's you know that the agency who issued it isn't prepared to vouch for you. They can't meet whatever standard the law requires for "Identification", so they make sure to say so. They're protecting themselves, basically.
 * So why do places accept those as ID? It's a trade-off between how strong they need the proof to be, versus how many legit customers they want to turn away.
 * The local library, which is mostly concerned with not turning anybody away, will take almost anything with your name on it. They're not worried about serious scammers, the very weak id requirement is just to stop honest people from telling fibs.
 * The bank, on the other hand, would prefer to send you home empty handed rather than give your money to the wrong person. If you need a new bank card printed, expect them to be rather strict about what counts as ID.
 * If you're trying to enter a defense manufacturing facility where they handle uranium, you can expect them to be very strict about what kind of ID they want. They'd rather send a thousand people home empty-handed than let in one guy who shouldn't be there.
 * It's not about a bright line between proof/not-proof. It's about trade-offs. ApLundell (talk) 14:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)


 * There is no blanket "proof of identity" which is acceptable in all context. The organization which needs such proof will establish which guidelines they choose to be acceptable "proof of identity"  Some accept any government-issued picture ID, some require multiple forms, some accept passports only, etc. etc.  Literally, the ONLY way to find out what is an acceptable form of ID is to ask whoever needs to see that ID.  They will tell you.  -- Jayron 32 14:58, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That wasn't the OP's question. He already knows that the documents he mentions are acceptable forms of ID to some organizations. What he's asking is why they are acceptable to those organizations. --Viennese Waltz 15:14, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there a law prohibiting those organizations from using those items as forms of ID? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:47, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No. The Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) which in the UK checks whether people have anything in their past which might make them unsuitable to work with children or vulnerable adults also accepts a range of documents for identification. In the UK, there is no requirement for anybody to hold either a passport or a driving licence as long as you don't want to go abroad or drive a motor vehicle. I suspect that there are plenty of people who possess neither. Therefore, identity can be established by using a number of other documents, those accepted by the DBS are listed here. So to satisfy the DBS you have to supply several documents, one of which is ideally a "Primary identity document" (passport, driving licence etc) but if you don't have these, then there are a range of other ones you can use including a bank statement or a telephone bill, but none of them is acceptable in isolation. I see from that DBS link that a National Insurance Card is not now on the list, but I can assure you that it was until fairly recently. So the answer is that these documents on their own are not proof of identity, but they can be used together with other documents if there is nothing better. Attempts to introduce a British national identity card foundered in 2010 on grounds of expense and civil rights issues. Alansplodge (talk) 18:50, 17 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Depending on the importance of the identification, different standards would apply. If somebody wants to withdraw all the money from your bank account, one would hope the bank would insist on proper ID.  On the other hand, if you've earned your free cup of coffee after buying 10 (and recording them in the vendor's rewards program), then any ID requirement may be quite minimal.  There's 2 reasons for this.  First, if somebody fraudulently gets a free cup of coffee, it's no big deal, and also it can be assumed that nobody would procure phoney ID in your name just to get a cup of coffee. StuRat (talk) 07:31, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * My point is that many British people will not have "proper ID" as they are not required to have it. Therefore, a portfolio of lesser documents can serve instead, exactly which ones will be specified in advance. Alansplodge (talk) 12:26, 18 August 2017 (UTC)