Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2017 February 24

= February 24 =

Samurai
So here I was talking to my karate instructor after class (or, rather, he was telling the whole class about Japanese history), and he said something along the lines that Japan under the shogunate was completely at peace for several hundred years -- and when I asked him if the samurai didn't sometimes fight among themselves (over money, over land, over women, etc.), he answered that they never did. I have trouble believing this -- I know that at the time Japan had essentially a feudal system of governance, and under such a system there's definitely bound to be at least some internecine warfare at least once in a blue moon. Can anyone verify his incredible claim? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:A09B:C22:D57D:D076 (talk) 08:13, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Describing the entire span of time under the Shoguns (1185 to 1868) as peaceful is completely ridiculous, just looking at List_of_conflicts_in_Asia. Your teacher may have been thinking specifically of the Edo period (about the last 250 years of Shogun rule), which was indeed free of major military conflicts. Our articles don't discuss smaller scale spats between individual Samurai, but to say that they never fought sounds similarly ridiculous. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:36, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * For some Edo period conflicts, see the Jōkyō uprising, Shakushain's revolt and the Menashi-Kunashir rebellion. There were also assassinations and similar - see for instance, Tanuma Okitomo and Tokugawa Tsunayoshi. See the 1754 Horeki River Improvement Incident for example of an inter-clan conflict over work, although rather than violence that ended in mass suicide. In general, the Edo period was very centralized, and the daimyō lords were kept under control through peaceful methods like the Sankin-kōtai system, where daimyō were obligated to keep their families as hostages in expensive palaces near the shogun's castle. Smurrayinchester 09:57, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's just say I generally don't go to karate instructors for my history lessons. As noted above they probably meant the Edo period. The actual meaning of "completely at peace" is completely up to whoever's saying it, since there's always some cutoff where you decide that crime, unrest, etc. below that level doesn't qualify as "not being at peace". For instance, it's often stated that Europe had a "century of peace" between the Napoleonic Wars and World War I, it being decided that all the European wars and uprisings that did happen during that time, like the Revolutions of 1848, Crimean War, and wars of unification of Italy and Germany, don't count since they weren't big enough. See also the recent question on the Miscellaneous Ref Desk that centered around debating the definition of "war". --47.138.163.230 (talk) 10:31, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Excepting the disturbances linked by Smurrayinchester above, the Tokugawa shogunate (1603 to 1867) is widely regarded as "a time of internal peace, political stability, and economic growth". "Life in Tokugawa Japan was peaceful but heavily controlled by the Shogunal government".  Certainly it was peaceful in comparison to the preceding century which is known as the Sengoku period "the age of civil war". As to samurai fighting amongst themselves, it was discouraged but not eradicated. Samurai were encouraged to study art and literature as well as the traditional martial arts, which themselves tended to evolve from purely practical fighting techniques into more philosophical systems, for example the move away from kenjutsu to kendo. The Samurai Warrior: The Golden Age of Japan's Elite Warriors 1560–1615 by Ben Hubbard has more details.  Alansplodge (talk) 11:45, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks, all! So, even in the relatively peaceful Edo period, there were occasional turf wars between samurai (or rather between rival daimyo whom the various samurai served), right? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 12:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Of the three linked above, one was a peasants' revolt and two were by the Ainu people, the oppressed aboriginals of northern Japan. The daimyo were kept largely in check by the "alternate attendance" scheme, Sankin-kōtai, which required the feudal lords to spend every other year in Edo under the watchful eye of the government. Alansplodge (talk) 01:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, the samurai behaving badly during the Edo period were usually ronin, who didn't serve a daimyo. If you're a fellow consumer of Japanese pop culture you'll be very familiar with the ronin highwaymen/bandits/etc. that are stock antagonists in period pieces. --47.138.163.230 (talk) 05:36, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Kind of like the mercenary soldiers from the 30 Years War? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 11:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * See the Forty-seven rōnin for example. Alansplodge (talk) 01:08, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Wetsuit Advice
I live in the UK and I am looking to buy my first wetsuit so that I can compete in my first - open water - triathlon. Whilst I don't have a formal diagnosis on Raynaud's phenomenon, I believe I suffer either from this or from something similar, as my hands and feet often feel very cold when I know they shouldn't. This obviously makes swimming in open water a bit of an issue. Does anyone here have any advice on this situation? Has anyone been in a similar situation? Is it common and easy to rent wetsuits? Thanks for your help. 2A02:C7D:A0E:4100:4892:E235:4C85:298B (talk) 22:07, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I linkified your post. I believe there's also a normal reaction to limit blood flow to the extremities (peripheral vasoconstriction) to preserve core body heat, when exposed to cold (does anyone know the name of this or have a link ?).  The cure, for me, is to avoid getting cold to begin with.  For example, I put my gloves on before I go outside, not waiting until my hands get cold, because once they get cold, it's difficult to warm them up even with gloves on.  In the context of diving/swimming, you might consider a dry suit instead of a wet suit. StuRat (talk) 22:21, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Once you put your wet suit on, piss in it as much as you can. Well-known anecdotal way of keeping warm, to start with at least.  And in keeping with the other "users" here, no references required, just personal opinons.  The Rambling Man (talk) 22:26, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, since the OP is looking to swim, rather than dive, it may be better to determine first if a drysuit would be suitable for this purpose. I know Quora is not quite a reliable source, but the users (or "users"?) responding to this question seem to agree that a wetsuit is preferred for swimming.
 * As for renting a wetsuit, a Google search for "wetsuit rental in the UK" finds links to several stores that provide this service, so it appears to be a common practice. Hope this helps! --FlyingAce (talk) 23:15, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * We don't give medical advice here but can tell you from personal experience that in my late teens (how old are you?) and was 'slimly built' ( are you too?) and fast through the water, it was just my hands that became so painful – so do I empathize. This is well recolonised. Have a read of this, and contact them  Triathlon for advice on open water swimming. P.S. With me, the problem diminished and faded as I grew older. But I  still remember that agony where I couldn't even join in snow-ball fights.


 * Of course a wet suit is what you need. StuRat is talking rubbish to suggest a dry suit.  And piss in it.  That's "REALLY HELPFUL" to stay warm.  But as usual, no references required!  The Rambling Man (talk) 23:21, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * FlyingAce, dry suits aren't just for diving, as the first sentence in that article states: "A dry suit or drysuit provides the wearer with environmental protection by way of thermal insulation and exclusion of water, and is worn by divers, boaters, water sports enthusiasts, and others who work or play in or near cold or contaminated water.". A triathlon is a water sport (or rather 1/3rd of it is). StuRat (talk) 23:27, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The OP said he wanted a "wet suit". Start listening.  And then start using some references!!  I think reminding us that a triathlon is a water sport (or rather 1/3rd of it is) is completely and utterly patronising when the OP is actually competing in the event.  What the hell?  The Rambling Man (talk) 23:35, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * (ec) Hi – I understand it can be used for swimming, but my point was that it does not seem to be too efficient for this purpose; or at least that's what the thread I linked above suggested. I would imagine that efficiency matters when participating in a triathlon. (, before anyone asks) --FlyingAce (talk) 23:42, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but if his hands and feet go numb, that may lower his efficiency even more. Note that I am suggesting the type of dry suit which also covers the feet and hands, as for use in toxic water. StuRat (talk) 23:46, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Some internet opinions on drysuits for open water swimming:
 * "Swimming in a dry suit is generally difficult. With fins and scuba gear, it isn't too bad, but you would be hard pressed to swim very far on the surface".
 * "Don't even think about a dry suit, you won't be able to swim at all in one of those, no matter how cold the water".
 * "You're not going to get very far in a dry suit so a wetsuit is your only real option".
 * And from me (not an open water swimmer but some thrashing around in English and Welsh cold water doing stupid kayak rescue tests): those who wish to pre-warm their wetsuits and don't wish to smell of piss can always bring a Thermos flask of warm water for the purpose. Alansplodge (talk) 01:11, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh and to answer the question directly, go to a shop that sells wet suits specifically for triathlons and talk to the staff; they're usually only there because they're obsessed with the sport and will happily talk through the options. Alansplodge (talk) 01:33, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course, if swimming off the coast of the UK, attempting not to smell of piss, shit, used condoms, oil, plastic bags etc, is a waste of time, a noble pursuit but ultimately flawed. Go for the piss, it works just fine.  And once you're skilled, it's on demand.  Citation needed.  But not at the Ref desks!! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:11, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * But maybe that's old news, see Water at England's beaches is cleanest on record. Alansplodge (talk) 01:30, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * We don't give medical advice here but can tell you from personal experience that in my late teens (how old are you?) and was 'slimly built' ( are you too?) and fast through the water, it was just my hands that became so painful – so do I empathize. This is well recolonised. Have a read of this, and contact them  Triathlon for advice on open water swimming. P.S. With me, the problem diminished and faded as I grew older. But I  still remember that agony where I couldn't even join in snow-ball fights. --Aspro (talk) 21:22, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * There a wet-suite bootees and gloves - a good dive shop will sell them. They will help keep your hands and feet warm. However, you would be well advised to check if the competition authority will let you use them, and if changing in and out will take too long. LongHairedFop (talk) 18:20, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * If your hands are well recolonized, you may have coral growing on them. :-) StuRat (talk) 22:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * When I played football, I taped chemical heating pads to the inside of my wrists. It helped keep my hands from going numb. Unfortunately, it didn't make be about 2 inches taller, so I never got past blueshirt. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 15:02, 28 February 2017 (UTC)