Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2017 July 3

= July 3 =

Is anthropology a subject in biology or the humanities?

 * Why do humans eat with strange tools instead of using their bare hands or sticks like other apes do?

That question explores human culture, but it may also deal with the historical and prehistorical human society from a biological perspective. Chimpanzees may use sticks to dig for termites. Why don't humans eat like chimpanzees?

Is such a question a biological question or a societal question? 50.4.236.254 (talk) 03:11, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Anthropology, as my Anthropology 101 professor said, is the study of people. As such, it is typically considered to be a science. The Humanities are a subset, in a sense. The humanities are usually about stuff people do or make in the areas of art, literature, philosophy, culture, etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:05, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
 * anthropology n. the study of human societies, customs, and beliefs. It is a global discipline involving humanities, social sciences and natural sciences, see Anthropology. In Aristotle, anthropologos is used literally, as "speaking of man.". There is an article about the subfield Biological anthropology. Blooteuth (talk) 12:59, 3 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The titular query (. . . biology or the humanities?) assumes that such categories correspond neatly to the real world, and also that they are both mutually exclusive and equivalent in scope. These assumptions are invalid: Taxonomies – in the broad sense, as linked – are culturally contextual, and arbitrary. See also Structuralism, which is anthropologically relevant. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.12.89.162 (talk) 16:02, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Are ISIL's "gold" coins made of actual gold ?
lists them as worth only US$1.80, a price set by ISIL itself. That doesn't seem likely if there's a significant amount of real gold in them. StuRat (talk) 20:08, 3 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Here's someone claiming they aren't, but I have no idea of whether the source is in any way reliable. Note that the article you linked refers to "its golden Dirham and Dinars" and gives $1.80 as "their value". This looks like a confusion of two denominations; the dirham would be the corresponding silver coin. See Modern gold dinar.  The claimed value of the gold dinar in 2015 was $139, but of course this doesn't necessarily reflect reality. --76.71.5.114 (talk) 21:23, 3 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but that price seems unlikely for even a solid silver coin. Perhaps it's silver-plated ? StuRat (talk) 01:51, 4 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Not sure why you say that. This forum discussion gives several varieties. Some are specified as silver plated steel, but others simply silver without further clarification. One example given is 1 Dirham is 2 grams, 5 Dirham is 10 grams and 10 Dirham is 20 grams. 2 grams is a fairly light coin, according to the article, the US penny is 2.5 grams. And according to [//chemconnections.org/general/chem120/Density-JCE-Pennies-12.pdf], it has a density of 7.2 g/mL which compares to silver at 10.49 g per cubic centimetre so even smaller, still it doesn't seem out of the realms of possibility. According to [//www.moneymetals.com/precious-metals-charts/silver-price], the silver spot price is $0.52 per gram. So a 1 Dirham 2 g mostly silver coin valued at $1.80 also seems within the realms. And that gives room for minting costs and a more realistic price for silver especially in ISIL controlled areas where unless they have excess from mining or looting the value is likely to be higher given the reluctance of many to trade with them. Of course such a high value coin wouldn't work as your lowest denomination, but the forum discussion also mentions a Fulus coin. Whether ISIL actually had such a mostly silver coin and whether it was widely used, I can't say. Nil Einne (talk) 05:41, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
 * BTW Bullion coin gives a 1/20 troy ounce Libertad and an old 1/10 troy ounce Britannia. I.E. 0.05 ozt and 0.1 ozt. [//www.jmbullion.com/silver/silver-coins/mexican-silver-libertads/bu-mexican-silver-libertads/] gives a value $4.60 for the 1/20 Libertad which seems a realistic premium for something done for commercial purposes and sold by third party sellers. Again whether ISIL really produce a 1 Dirham 2 gram mostly silver coin and whether it was actually used I have no idea, ISIL seemed very good at publicity without actually following through at times. Nil Einne (talk) 06:00, 4 July 2017 (UTC)


 * One final comment, there are a bunch of 1/10, 1/20 and even 1/25 when silver and platinum bullion coins are considered. The reason why silver coins of such a weight/mass are so rare would likely be because they are generally made for collectors and investors. Collectors may be interested in such a low value coin, but not investors since the premium (and to some extent the low value) makes them not worthwhile. Things are obviously a bit different when you're producing them for currency although I think history from those trying to reintroduce such things has shown, it's actually quite difficult even when you don't have the limitations ISIL had. (Although ISIL also had the advantage that they could try and force the use of such currency.) Also I was only looking the the current spot price of silver. The price of silver has collapsed from a recent peak [//silverprice.org/silver-price-history.html] so the price may have been higher when ISIL was actually producing these things although it looks to me like prices haven't really changed that significantly since 2013-2014 and ISIL didn't pronounce their caliphate until 2014. Again I don't know enough to comment on how the price in ISIL controlled areas would have varied. Nil Einne (talk) 06:46, 4 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Real final comment I think, I forgot to mention there is a claim of a 1 Dirham made of Silver (.999) on that forum. No weight was given so I didn't mention it until now but looking more carefully a weight of 15 g is given for the 5 Dirham coin suggesting a possible weight of 3g for the 1 Dirham. Then again, bizarrely 5 Dinars is 21.25 g but 2 Dinars is said to 4.25 g i.e. 1/5 suggesting to me the stats are questionable. As also mentioned in that forum and the other linked thread, great care needs to be taken with what coins are available outside ISIL areas since it appears some people have made fake versions to sell and these are often completely made up. (Which may be legally risky in some places, but probably less risky than selling a real ISIL coin.) And while details about life under ISIL controlled areas have spread, precise info on the currency they used is not generally what interest most people. (And notably if these really were used, it may have been more among those in power and the wealthy, and these people aren't normally the ones talking about their experiences. Some details have emerged from writings but again these often won't include much on the currency used.) If you're really interested, you'll need to explore the available info with a critical eye. For example there's some talk of a raid on a mint in Turkey. The location would suggest this may have been more likely intended for genuine rather than fantasy/fake purposes. Or if they were fakes they were intended to be used in ISIL areas mimicking real coins rather than sold to collectors who wouldn't know if they look anything like real ISIL coins. So details learnt from there may be useful provided you can be sure the details which are revealed are really what was found out. Nil Einne (talk) 07:20, 4 July 2017 (UTC)


 * If they didn't seem to be soon destined for military defeat, some type of economic warfare against ISIL, say be counterfeiting their coins, might be in order. However, it sounds like they may already be counterfeits. StuRat (talk) 04:10, 7 July 2017 (UTC)


 * There may be fake coins. Whether there are counterfeits widely used in ISIL control areas is a lot less clear especially since as I said, it's not even clear what is being used in their areas. As I also mentioned counterfeits in ISIL areas would seem to be a high risk low reward option for anyone not intent on economic warfare, it's not like the economy in there areas seemed to be stellar. Whether it was actually worth it as a form of economic warfare is obviously impossible to say with answers to the earlier questions, my guess is no it was not. Nil Einne (talk) 13:44, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Actually, their economy was doing quite well for a while there, when they had control of oil production facilities and were able to sell oil to their neighbors. The US didn't want to target those initially, out of fear of causing fires and killing bystanders, and thus losing allies.  However, this was a mistake, and since the US started targeting those production and transportation systems, ISIL's revenue stream has dried up. StuRat (talk) 20:59, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The disambiguation, Libertad, above should be to Libertad (coin) and the Britannia is not the province but Britannia (coin). CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:56, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I read these pages to check, but neglected to links to the proper pages. Nil Einne (talk) 13:44, 8 July 2017 (UTC)