Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 April 15

= April 15 =

United States Flag Code
Why is the United States Flag considered a living thing in the United States Flag Code, when it is not biologically a living thing? 32ieww (talk) 23:23, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 4 U.S. Code § 8 (j) states that "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.]" (emphasis added) It's a symbolic representation of the country. IMO, it's part of a civic religion tenet similar to transubstantiation.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 23:29, 15 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Also see metaphor, symbolism, hyperbole, etc. -- Jayron 32 00:00, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * ... metonymy ... —Tamfang (talk) 08:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Are illegally using the flag then?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doroletho (talk • contribs) 01:55, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The flag code is a "law" in the sense that it was enacted by congress, but it's really just a guideline. There is no penalty for disobeying.
 * ApLundell (talk) 02:02, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Besides which, those aren't flags. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:50, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * However, at first glance they appear to be contravening "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform" [my italics]. While the flag in its entirity is not depicted in those bikinis, they are clearly intending to evoke it. Perhaps there are insufficient resources or motivation to pursue all but the most egregious of such exploitations.
 * (In my own country, use of our Union Flag in this and many other commercial applications is both allowed and encouraged, and nobody turns a hair at, for example, someone wearing 'union jack underpants' or any other clothing incorporatinig or depicting the flag.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.218.14.51 (talk) 12:59, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * There is no "pursuit" at all, however egregious. See, for example, Flag Desecration Amendment and linked articles, for the current legal aspect. Matt Deres (talk) 14:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The thing to remember about the Flag code in the U.S. is that it is not enforcable; it is guidance for proper respectful use of the flag, but no person can be forced to follow it, and no person can be punished for violating it, per the First Amendment to the United States Constitution (which is older than the flag code, it should be noted), the Government cannot punish a person for speech acts, and displays of the flag, for whatever purpose, are considered speech acts. ApLundell notes this above; it's written into the U.S. code, and as such, its status as binding law is only applicable to U.S. government agencies and the like.  Private individuals, and private businesses, cannot be coerced into following it.  Many will, if only because they wish to comply with the code, but there can be no punishment for not doing so.  -- Jayron 32 14:37, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * While there's no legal punishment, improper display of the flag (especially if purposeful) is subject to public scorn and ridicule. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:07, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * That's really what I had in mind: cultural disapprobation can be more powerful than mere laws (especially if not in practice enforced). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.218.14.51 (talk) 22:50, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
 * However (similarly to the situation in Britain), wearing clothes which feature an American flag (such as the bikinis mentioned above) is in fact considered socially acceptable here in the USA and in fact is considered patriotic in many circles (only in formal situations is it ever frowned upon). 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:792F:2CDD:A29B:FC67 (talk) 03:14, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's respectful, in a funny sort of way. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:03, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The flag is a powerful image. It is used in paintings by for instance Jasper Johns. See also Flag (painting). Whether in clothing or art it tends to convey "messages", so to speak. Bus stop (talk) 06:25, 18 April 2018 (UTC)