Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 January 28

= January 28 =

Creating a nonexistent person
Given the Soviet Union's record-keeping system as of late 1970s/early 1980s, would it have been possible to create a nonexistent submarine captain in the Soviet Navy (like in the novel Lieutenant Kije, but intentionally)? If so, how many insiders would have to be bribed or otherwise recruited in order to create the necessary documents/records? How many extra insiders (if any) would have to be involved in order to fabricate an exemplary service record for him and/or to get him assigned to a specific ship? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:74C3:7370:860B:6AA5 (talk) 07:32, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * what about the Soviet Union's record-keeping? You seem to imply it wasn't adequate. Do you have evidence for that? To the point - creating a fake person would prolly be hard in the civilian world, but you can safely assume that special services could do anything, same as their Western counterparts. 78.50.124.60 (talk) 14:37, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am implying nothing -- I am only asking! And yes, I am assuming that this would be a part of a British/American special operation, with the ultimate goal of stealing a Soviet nuclear submarine for evaluation.  (You see how creating a nonexistent submarine captain would fit into this, don't you?) 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:74C3:7370:860B:6AA5 (talk) 06:55, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That is an extremely improbable scenario. There's simply too much paperwork to fake (and too many bureaucrats to suborn), especially for such a high-security assignment. Besides, stealing a nuclear submarine is tantamount to an act of war and certainly beyond the capability of a single individual. The Red October plot depended on nearly all the officers working together and hiding the fact that the sub was successfully stolen. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:49, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And they were all recruited by the captain (as was normal procedure in the Soviet Navy at the time). So, assuming that they successfully get the British spy assigned as the captain, he would then be able to recruit the officers who are willing and ready to defect (no doubt there were plenty of disgruntled officers in the Soviet Navy then, just as in the Russian Navy now).  As for the paperwork, that's what I was asking about -- just how much would be involved? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:74C3:7370:860B:6AA5 (talk) 06:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Where in the Bay Area did this happen?
"In 1984, the inspector general discloses, the CIA intervened with the U.S. Justice Department to seek the return from police of $36,800 in cash that had been confiscated from a Nicaraguan drug-smuggling gang in the Bay Area whose leader was a prominent Contra fund-raiser. The money had been taken during what was at the time the largest seizure of cocaine in the history of California."

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/oct/22/local/me-34997

I've tried Googling largest cocaine seizure in California history from 1984 articles but couldn't find any relevant links.

Muzzleflash (talk) 18:08, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Seems to be related to the "The Frogman Case" - sorry, no exact location yet but more details here. Alansplodge (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * According to Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Cocaine Explosion, it was "just before 2 A.M. on January 17, 1983... a hole in a fence near a swampy marsh leading to Pier 96... It was the biggest cocaine bust in the history of the West Coast". I'll leave you to read the rest, it's a bit complicated. Alansplodge (talk) 20:41, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Pier 96 – Google maps —2606:A000:4C0C:E200:5816:CC2:4ADE:73A0 (talk) 22:36, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I worked within half a mile of that location from 1984 to 1993. Most people back then would have called it the "Bayview District" of San Francisco. It was a warehouse/industrial neighborhood. There was a very large USPS facility nearby on Evans Avenue. It was one of the least glamorous neighborhoods of San Francisco. Lots of chain link fences and abandoned cars. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:39, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Would that be Bayview-Hunters Point, San Francisco? -- Jayron 32 18:15, 1 February 2018 (UTC)