Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 May 31

= May 31 =

Western number gestures
I've just found the Chinese_number_gestures article. Is there any chance to create the same kind of article for Western number gestures? It would be interested to list the different alternative. For example, showing 1, 2 and 3 with fingers is different in US/UK and in continental Europe. Ericdec85 (talk) 08:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * If you can find reliable sources for a western gesture system, then sure. I'm personally not aware of the difference you mention, nor of any systematic way of depicting numbers above five.  Rojomoke (talk) 09:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Is there a standard English method to represent 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 with one hand in English? The claim that 1, 2, and 3 has a regionally accepted method was shown to be very false after it was featured in Inglorious Bastards.
 * What do you mean? It is true for France and Germany VS the US and the UK. Ericdec85 (talk) 15:53, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please [prove that it's true, with a reliable source. HiLo48 (talk) 01:03, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

209.149.113.5 (talk) 12:07, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * British horse racing bookies developed a hand sign language to communicate numbers (integers and a selection of fractions called "odds") that is explained and demonstrated here. DroneB (talk) 12:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Financial traders also have a number system in hand signaling. 85.76.67.53 (talk) 13:27, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The bookies' system is called Tic-tac. DuncanHill (talk) 13:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * From what I could see, everybody in France and Germany will show 3 with the middle finger, the index finger and the thumb. People in the UK, US and Philippines show it with the ring, middle and index fingers. And I've never seen any gesture for numbers about 5 in Western countries. That would be an interesting article. Ericdec85 (talk) 15:53, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I do not believe that people that many peple show 3 with the ring, middle and index fingers, as claimed. My hand won't do that unless I use the other hand to hold my little finger down!  Reliable sources, please. --76.69.118.94 (talk) 19:13, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * See Scout sign and salute - fifty million Scouts and Guides can manage it. Alansplodge (talk) 22:42, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * And Finger-counting around the world: "English speaking countries typically count with the index finger as the first digit and end with the thumb to represent five. ". Also Numbers: Their History and Meaning by Graham Flegg (pp. 14-19) includes a system devised by Bede in the 8th century. Alansplodge (talk) 22:54, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * EDIT: I've created the article. Please don't be to harsh on me, I'm not really used to create articles and English is not my native language. Feel free to make this article better :) Ericdec85 (talk) 16:15, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * As of now the article has no sources. Does such a thing exist, as documented by reliable sources?  Original research?  "A list of numerical hand signals" (or preferably something less clumsy) might be more appropriate perhaps? 85.76.67.53 (talk) 16:37, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * As interesting as this article could be, it's really going to need some sources. I'm American and have lived in a few places in the US. And I've run across people who start with their thumb when counting and people who start with their index finger. And I've found them in various geographic areas. I don't know how you can say any specific way is predominant without sources. † dismas †|(talk) 22:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And now that I look at the Chinese number gesture article as well, that doesn't have any sources either. † dismas †|(talk) 22:58, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe something from Finger-counting could be added? (There are references!) There's also this, which could be added to either article. To be honest, there's a good case for both articles to be merged into Finger-counting. Matt Deres (talk) 01:48, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The research cited in that Guardian article is Nature and culture of finger counting: Diversity and representational effects of an embodied cognitive tool by Andrea Bender & Sieghard Beller. Alansplodge (talk) 17:38, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Watching the 2018 Critérium du Dauphiné time trial today, it's interesting to see how they count it down for each racer in the start house:
 * 5 - hand in front of rider's face, all 5 fingers, spread apart
 * 4 - fold thumb under
 * 3 - fold pinky and ring under, unfold thumb
 * 2 - fold thumb under again
 * 1 - fold middle under
 * 0 - "go" - extend arm parallel to rider, with index finger pointing the way
 * ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:32, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

chest first
What is it called when two young men or boys (or sometimes females) jump against each other chest first (arms back or along their sides), a bit like this guy? Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for answering (talk) 15:29, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I’ve heard it called a chest bump. Searching for “chest bump” on Wikipedia gives a hit to one article (about a basketball player) that uses that phrase. Loraof (talk) 15:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that sounds familiar! Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for answering (talk) 17:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is a detailed explanation with videos of the behavior. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  20:58, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

World's oldest warning label
What is the oldest warning label in history? 2001:44B8:20D:5B00:8951:3DED:7C7F:3487 (talk) 18:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * By "warning label", do you specifically mean something attached to a mass-produced product so any buyer will have the opportunity to read it? If so it would presumably be no earlier than the era of mass production, and for that matter, probably of mass literacy.  But warning signs like "Beware of the dog" go back at least to classical times. --76.69.118.94 (talk) 19:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, look, Wikipedia has an article on warning labels. But it's pretty poor and "may not represent a worldwide view", which the question specifically requested. --76.69.118.94 (talk) 19:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * There's also Skull and crossbones (symbol) which has been used for many centuries to symbolize death, and has been common on containers of poisons since the mid-1800s. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:28, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The Mark of Cain. SinisterLefty (talk) 23:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * And there's a "9,000-year-old wall painting of volcano tells people of nearby danger" ; "Researchers believe it warns about the dangers of nearby Mount Hasan': (More of a warning sign than a "label", however)  —2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 18:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Some ancient Egyptian tombs had signs or labels warning that tomb robbers would be cursed. However, many of these were nevertheless robbed in antiquity, sometimes only a few months or years after being sealed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.160.23 (talk) 20:53, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Not quite that old, but the Cave canem mosaic in Pompeii is well known. (Apologies, I've just noticed that was indirectly posted above). Alansplodge (talk) 22:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)