Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 April 15

= April 15 =

Haliotis midae
Perlemoen or Abelone. In South Africa it is often heard that some one has been arrested with a truck load of these animals that have been illegally harvested. What are they used for? As an aside I would also like to know are they endangered; who is buying them and is it illegal to fish for them or is it just a matter of quantity? Are they endangered? Thanks all 81.131.40.58 (talk) 07:14, 15 April 2019 (UTC)Me
 * I think you mean perlemoen abalone. Anyway, although the Haliotis midae article doesn't really go into many details, our general abalone article does. These are a very popular generally luxury or high status food in a number of cultures. I think the most significant for the import market is probably the popularity as such in East Asian cultures, especially Chinese and maybe also Japanese. See  which list Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and maybe China (position unlisted but it's stated to be both a significant importer and exporter) as top importers. This is not for the perlemoen abalone in particular, but I suspect it's consumption will not be that different from general trends as the high level import market. The article abalone article is not well sourced and may be out of date but suggest in the Abalone the situation is they may be harvested and exported under some conditions and with permits but most of the trade is probably illegal (either not following the restrictions or without permits or both). This source from 2011 from our article suggests the rate is probably high enough that the population is threatened [//www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165783610002882]. These sources [//blog.nationalgeographic.org/2014/12/08/the-disturbing-war-for-abalone/] [//www.traffic.org/site/assets/files/2235/traffic-hk-abalone-report.pdf] [//www.sealifebase.ca/summary/Haliotis-midae.html] suggests after the brief CITES appendix III listing last decade, they're still not either appendix II or III and also not on the IUCN Red List. But that may not mean that much as these is a lot of politics that goes on with such listings and also there generally needs to be significant research establishing a problem. Nil Einne (talk) 07:56, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

MSN Editors
Is it just me or does MSN have a serious prblem with its editorial staff? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/offbeat/dog-is-rescued-after-its-found-swimming-135-miles-out-at-sea-oil-rig-workers-pluck-pooch-from-gulf-of-thailand-and-have-no-idea-how-it-got-there/ar-BBVWV2P?ocid=spartandhp

"She was taken to vets in Songkhla, southern Thailand, today" Please see the pictures and spot the the errors. Who is the editor for MSN News? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.40.58 (talk) 14:08, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't really know why you're bothering to post this here. If you have a problem with the content of MSN, take it up with them, not us. What's more, closer inspection reveals that this story is merely reheated content from the Daily Mail, so MSN isn't even responsible for whatever errors it may or may not contain. --Viennese Waltz 14:18, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * It referes to the bitch throughout the article then shows a male dog. I would like to know who the editors are. Its a reasonable question as the information is not provided in the wikipedia article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.40.58 (talk • contribs)
 * What Wikipedia article? We aren't a mind-reader, and we aren't here to play guessing games, and this isn't a forum for you to express general outrage at things you disagree with from around the rest of the internet.  If you can clearly say 1) what mistake you found in 2) which Wikipedia article, perhaps we can help you find the problem.  If the mistake is at MSN or any other website, we have no means here of correcting such mistake.  -- Jayron 32 15:17, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Article referred to is MSN and the mistake referred to is the article referring to a female dog throughout but showing a picture of a male dog, and the question is who is the editor for MSN news. Why the hostility?  Very demoralizing.
 * That article doesn't mention a dog (male or female)? I see what you mean about the MSN news article which was written by James Grant.  Perhaps oil rig worker Khon Vitisak doesn't know the difference between male and female, or perhaps an editor stupidly used a photo of another dog?  Dbfirs  16:36, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Perhaps if you weren't asking us about something we have no way of knowing and no control over then you wouldn't be sensing hostility and feeling demoralized. Your question here makes as much sense as me asking you why my electricity bill was higher than normal last month. --Khajidha (talk) 17:37, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Presumably, the "mistake" is in reference to a photo from an article on MSN's website. It is common practice to use stock photos. In this instance, perhaps as an exemplar of the breed. This is also done on occasion in Wikipedia articles (eg: Rigel (dog)). It is considered best practice in journalism, however, to identify an image as such ("stock photo", "Getty images", etc.). —2606:A000:1126:28D:4C9F:5854:38AB:65A9 (talk) 17:43, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * "Provided by Associated Newspapers Limited".  They're the publishers of the Daily Mail.   What do you expect?   A BBC agricultural reporter got some stick when he referred to a young bull as a "heifer". 2A00:23C1:CD81:F01:A028:9BCF:CB20:E275 (talk) 18:08, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually, I didn't check the article until now -- the problem isn't the photos, its the pronouns "she" / "her". The writer & editor (if any) need a refresher course on anatomy. —2606:A000:1126:28D:4C9F:5854:38AB:65A9 (talk) 00:36, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * As VW has already said this isn't just the photos. The whole story is a Daily Mail one. It has a Daily Mail logo at the top, it's written by "James Gant For Mailonline" and if you look at the advert links to the right, one of the options number 4 is "More from Daily Mail". This isn't particularly surprising. AFAIK MSN has little or no content of their own in most places. They're just a news portal displaying content from other providers. If you look at the main page [//www.msn.com/en-gb], it should say who the content is from. Currently the top 3 stories for me are Evening Standard, Mirror and Reuters. NB This is on a desktop browser. It's possible different browsers and especially mobile devices may display the content differently. If you want to suggest MSN need to be more selective in who they get their stories from then contact MSN. If you want to complain about this particular story, contact Daily Mail. Nil Einne (talk) 05:17, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * P.S. And yes it is correct that these clearly aren't stock photos but photos of the actual dog and yes you can see testicles so he would be more accurate. But as said, if you aren't happy with that Daily Mail is your point of contact. They're responsible for the editing. Only contact MSN if you want to suggest they stop using Daily Mail content since otherwise there's not much they can do. I mean sure you could contact MSN to tell them to contact Daily Mail and complain, but that's just dumb. Nil Einne (talk) 05:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * P.S. And yes it is correct that these clearly aren't stock photos but photos of the actual dog and yes you can see testicles so he would be more accurate. But as said, if you aren't happy with that Daily Mail is your point of contact. They're responsible for the editing. Only contact MSN if you want to suggest they stop using Daily Mail content since otherwise there's not much they can do. I mean sure you could contact MSN to tell them to contact Daily Mail and complain, but that's just dumb. Nil Einne (talk) 05:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I know, the press hasn't even gotten to the bottom of Who Let the Dogs Out? after all these years. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 05:05, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Who is the editor for MSN News? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.40.58 (talk) 08:28, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Knowing that won't help you with your issue, as has already been explained to you. --Viennese Waltz 08:34, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify one more time, since you obviously haven't read or understood what you are being told: Let's restate this in simple, unconfusing terms. MSN did not write or edit the article in question.  The article was written and edited, including the pictures, by the Daily Mail.  MSN's only involvement in the article is that they reposted it on their own website.  If you have a problem with the article, and want to know who was responsible for the picture in question, that would be the Daily Mail.  You can contact them at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/contactus/index.html I hope that helps.  -- Jayron 32 12:52, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Jewish mourning and birthday parties
Courtesy for those of Jewish faith: it is not mentioned on Wikipedia: during Avelut, even birthdays are forbidden, because they are also considered joyful events? Thanks a lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 18:09, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 * According to http://www.jewfaq.org/death.htm#Mourning (which is from the Conservative tradition), during Avelut, parties (and concerts, theatre, etc) is avoid. BTW, Avelut is only observed by the children of the deceased. LongHairedFop (talk) 19:21, 15 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia article states [my italics]:
 * "An avel ("mourner") does not listen to music or go to concerts, and does not attend any joyous events or parties such as marriages or Bar or Bat Mitzvahs, unless absolutely necessary. (If the date for such an event has already been set prior to the death, it is strictly forbidden for it to be postponed or cancelled.)"
 * This might be taken to imply an avoidence of birthday parties (which I assume was meant; actual birthdays will occur regardless). I think to add a specific mention of birthday party avoidance we would need a Reliable source that itself specifically mentions them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.2.132 (talk) 19:35, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

This is too dependent on interpretation of what you mean for Wikipedia to answer.

By "birthdays", presumably you mean parties, but what defines a "party"? Some rabbis will take a strong line on this (no celebration party even if it's just your family), some lenient, some will be lenient if it's on Shabbat (sure, invite a few friends round for a meal), others will tell people that even on Shabbat they are not allowed to socialise, some will say going out for a meal with your family is fine, others will say no way.

Sorry. If you're asking for a real-life question, ask a competent rabbi of your choice. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:15, 17 April 2019 (UTC)