Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 August 31

= August 31 =

Loud Asian kids
Hi, I wonder how would people in Western countries react if there were a very loud kid from China or Vietnam in a restaurant. Foreigners in Asia often complain about how loud the kids are there. Would Westerners get angry or irritated if Asian parents would let their kid shout without saying anything? 42.118.119.197 (talk) 05:18, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * ObPersonal: all too often in restaurants in Britain, some British parents allow their children to shout and/or run around creating a disturbance. Typically if challenged such parents become aggressive, so the other patrons just grumble quietly and hope the restaurant staff will do something about it. I doubt the reaction would be any different if they were East Asian children.
 * In my experience (and I myself lived in Hong Kong and Singapore as a child), East Asian children in Britain and elsewhere are better behaved on average than British children, as are children in Germany (where I have also lived), France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Finland.
 * I'm not sure where one might find referenced material on this topic, but hopefully some other editors will. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.61.224 (talk) 06:22, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The most obvious way to inspire the restaurant staff to do something is to get up and leave, and explain (loudly) to the restaurant staff why you're leaving. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:04, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Doubtless, but British people (older ones at any rate) generally abhor making ourselves conspicuous in public, so find complaining in such situations very difficult and distasteful: thus when a problem is merely annoying rather than unendurable, we tend to suffer stoically in silence. I do not claim this is a virtue, merely a characteristic.
 * Leaving a restaurant in such circumstances would likely bring a disruptive end to the entire social evening, rather than having aspects of it be less pleasant than hoped for. More likely we would finish our meal and, if the establishment was not one we had hitherto regularly patronised, on leaving quietly advise the staff why we would not be coming again.
 * Note that the OP asked how 'Westeners' would react in the given circumstances, not how they might react differently to better effect. Let us not get sidetracked. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.23.195} 2.122.61.224 (talk) 19:41, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The noisemakers are counting on nothing happening, so they win. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:14, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The noisemakers are the children, who haven't yet learned how to behave in public; the offenders are the parents who aren't teaching them, but they are not 'counting' on anything or trying to 'win' something, they are merely oblivious or uncaring. The sufferers of the behaviour are also not trying to 'win' anything and feel no obligation to risk verbal abuse from the uncouth parents. Again, this is not necessarily the ideal course, especially from the point of view of a foreign culture (that of the USA), but it's what people in Britain most typically do, which was the thrust of the OP's query. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.61.224 (talk) 03:13, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * We really ought to be giving the OP references of avenues to explore, so I'll start: The book How to be an Alien by George Mikes gives humorous though dated insights into British social characteristics and behavior from the point of view of an outsider. More recently, the sociologist Kate Fox has studied and written about English public social behaviour. Her short work Passport to the Pub (which also forms part of her later and longer study Watching the English: the hidden rules of English behaviour) is moderately applicable to the OP's scenario. Perhaps other editors can suggest further and better British and non-British (i.e. 'Western' as specified) sources? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.23.195} 2.122.61.224 (talk) 19:41, 31 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Imagine living on a very low wage + tips and being held accountable for the fact that the kids of some random customers aren't perfectly behaved. People work there to make and serve food, not to fix what may be years of bad parenting. Poveglia (talk) 01:16, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * And the annoyed patrons just assuming the staff will fix it would be the passive approach that others are discussing here... because the staff might be taking the attitude that if no one complains, then there's no problem. It's also possible the staff, being busy, might not notice it as much as the customers. Again, the perps are counting on no one doing anything, and they win. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:23, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Bugs, as he is doing every single day now, and almost about every question, continues to express his opinion and fails to provide any reference. This behaviour is not up to the standard of this reference desk. Almost as bad as those "winning" noisy kids.--Lgriot (talk) 13:17, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * What type of reference do you suggest for how to handle the OP's complaint? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:22, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * 2.122.61.224 has provided several here above. I am sure there are more, for other Western cultures, but if you don't have any, you could avoid adding NOISE to the conversation, and you could, for example, not behave like those kids, unless of course, what matters to you is "winning" through making a lot of noise.--Lgriot (talk) 13:56, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm saying what I would do in such a circumstance. It's you that's creating the noise. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:59, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "I'm saying what I would do in such a circumstance": You know perfectly well that your opinion is not what you should provide on the reference desk, even when the OP is asking for it.
 * "It's you that's creating the noise": And that is not a childish response at all (sarcasm, for those who hadn't guessed). It is all about winning the argument with you, never about actually providing references. You know there are opinion forums you could join. --Lgriot (talk) 14:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to be helpful, and all you're offering is grief, and biased grief at that. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:41, 3 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Note that it depends on the type of restaurant. At a fine dining establishment, this would be completely unacceptable, and the parents would be asked by the staff to control their children or leave. But at a restaurant that caters to kids, like the infamous Chuck E. Cheese's, kids running around and shouting is a exactly what they are going for. SinisterLefty (talk) 02:54, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * ... not just kids ...  ---Sluzzelin  talk
 * "It's good to have a place where the kids can run around and shout."


 * "Yea, because at home they just sit quietly with their hands folded in front of them." SinisterLefty (talk) 16:46, 4 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Most of the answers seem to be about Britain, but the language of the question suggests that it is not about Britain. ("Asian" in Britain usually means somebody from South Asia, not a Chinese or Vietnamese). Restaurant culture and expectations are significantly different in Britain and in the US, at any rate). --ColinFine (talk) 19:10, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Here are some thoughts from a British publication about noisy kids in restaurants. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:38, 3 September 2019 (UTC)


 * One hopes people would react in exactly the same way as they would to very loud children of any other ethnicity or origin. DuncanHill (talk) 17:23, 4 September 2019 (UTC)