Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 February 14

= February 14 =

American or only Film American? (parking lot edition)
There've been a spate of questions recently about stuff people see in movies asking whether X is normal behaviour being captured on film or if it's just done for some dramatic purpose (e.g. not saying goodbye on the phone to reduce needless dialogue). I have two questions about my noisy neighbors to the south as it regards to parking lots: I've been to the US on any number of occasions, but have never seen either item "in the field" as it were. Matt Deres (talk) 03:46, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) I often see references to having your parking validated. From context, I suppose this refers to some kind of ticket to get out of a parking lot - which a shopkeeper may choose to endorse so the customer needn't pay. Is that so? How does it work? We have no article at parking validation and Wikipedia has an article on everything so its existence is certainly dubious. While we certainly have parking garages in Canada, I've never seen any that required paid parking at a shopping mall, so references such as those in When Flanders Failed seem foreign to me.
 * 2) In (usually) comedies, I sometimes see a kind of spiked strip in the ground of an entrance to a parking lot or garage that prevents people from exiting without paying. There's usually some schtick about tricking someone to go over the spikes or reversing the signs or something. Do they actually exist? In Canada, we just use gate arms for this purpose. I'm not even sure what to call this thing so research is difficult.
 * These are both real things, and very common. I'm a little surprised you haven't encountered them.  Didn't you ever rent a car?  They're almost universal as you enter the rental return.
 * Validation works just as you inferred. They give you a paper ticket on the way in, and you take it to the merchant, who generally stamps it or sticks it in a machine or something.  That pays for a certain amount of time in the parking lot.  Anything over that is your responsibility.  I assume the merchant has to pay something to the parking concessionaire for the privilege, but I'm ignorant of the details. --Trovatore (talk) 03:57, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Paid shopping-mall parking certainly does exist in Canada, though I guess it'd only be used in locations like city centers where parking is expensive. I'm pretty sure I've heard of parking validation in Canada occasionally as well, but as I don't have a car, I don't remember any specifics. --76.69.46.228 (talk) 08:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've rented cars on three occasions, from different locations. At no point was I ever in a controlled parking lot for that, though - it was just a standard parking lot the cars were lined up in. Not even a gate arm. Matt Deres (talk) 16:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, here's an example in Los Angeles. (And remember, if it's done in Los Angeles, it's part of Film America.)  The warning sign about "severe tire damage" is standard in my experience.  And here's an advertisement from a company that sells them, calling them "traffic spikes" and "directional traffic controllers"; I presume "Tiger Teeth" is a brand name of theirs.  I believe I've also seen ones that have a giant sawtooth edge instead of individual spikes, and ones with individual spikes that are just pieces of rebar. --76.69.46.228 (talk) 00:26, 15 February 2019 (UTC)


 * A gate arm might be used for control, but could be insufficient, as someone determined to leave could ram the gate arm at high speed and destroy it. Those spikes will shred your tires and you won't get very far. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:14, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * For an example of the "spiked strip" in the UK, see here. It's not very clear, but the line behind the "NO ENTRY" marking is a line of raised metal plates that become flush with the ground when you drive over them in the right direction. I'm not sure what would happen if you go the wrong way: I don't think they would do any damage, but you might get a bumpy ride. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 10:02, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've never seen actual spikes in the UK, but traffic flow plates are fairly common (should anyone fancy starting an article).--Shantavira|feed me 10:17, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * One Way Traffic Flow Plates. Well done Shantavira, it helps when you know what something is called. Alansplodge (talk) 22:27, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see it often, but at least one Save-On-Foods branch in Vancouver offers parking validation. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:42, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The Lowry complex in England has a carpark validation scheme, or it did have, the last time I visted it some years ago.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 17:29, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * In my experience, the place that you would most often find one-way spike strips is at airport rental car lot. shoy (reactions) 21:13, 15 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Slipped my mind at the time, but there's one practically next door to where I live. See pic. --Trovatore (talk) 20:42, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * In Los Angeles County and Orange County, many parking garages and parking lots have ticket systems in place to charge for parking, so it's very, very common for retailers in adjacent shopping centers to offer parking validation. It was also very common in the 1980s and 1990s to have "severe tire damage" spike systems to discourage drivers from driving the wrong way through the entrance in order to exit.  I have seen both things elsewhere in the United States, but they're much more rare outside of the big cities like LA. --Coolcaesar (talk) 22:04, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * You know, I just looked again at my picture in connection with your response, and I just noticed &mdash; these spikes are to keep you from going in to the parking lot, not out! They block you from entering from the street, going the wrong way.  I suppose that might make sense if there were someone taking money on the other end of the parking lot, but there isn't (though there is a sign stating parking rates).
 * I'm having trouble working out how it makes sense at all. Maybe there used to be a pay-on-entrance gate?  Or maybe it's really just to keep drivers from going the wrong way and hitting the ones coming out?  I must have walked by that spot a hundred times and I just never thought about it. --Trovatore (talk) 07:14, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It's a one-lane exit, and they don't want drivers entering there. There would be a different place to enter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:47, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, so how does validation work? In controlled exit parking lots that I've seen, it's most common to pay at some kind of automated kiosk prior to going back to your car. The kiosk then spits out a second ticket that you insert into a scanner at the gate arm, which lets you out. So is that what happens with validation? You buy something at the store so they exchange your original ticket with a "paid" release ticket? Is it an all or nothing thing? Like, if the parking is by the hour, does validation cover the whole time or just some of it? Matt Deres (talk) 14:11, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
 * This is all "in my experience"; I don't really have any sources to point you to. I think the most typical use of validation is restaurants and movies.  You park in a lot open to the public but for pay, and they give you a ticket, which keeps track of the time you entered.  You bring the ticket into the restaurant and have your meal, and they validate it, which typically covers enough time for a leisurely meal, say a couple of hours.  Similarly for cinema.  Other sorts of merchants sometimes validate, but it's less common.
 * When you leave, you present the ticket at the exit, and it computes the time you've spent in the lot. If it's less than what validation covers, you're golden.  If you go over that, you pay for the difference.
 * Shopping malls frequently don't charge you for the first three hours or so. That way they accommodate actual shoppers, without providing unlimited free parking for anyone who wants to do something in the area. --Trovatore (talk) 21:32, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Just incidentally, this can also be done with a much shorter free-time allowance. Once in 1999 I was driving in Germany and wanted to get some information at a train station. I expected there would be a short-term parking area outside the station, but there wasn't. Instead, the long-term parking lot was free if you stayed less than 15 minutes.  I thought it was an elegant approach. --76.69.46.228 (talk) 04:33, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Our local airport give you 30 minutes free; what's nice about that is if you time your pick-up times right, that means you can pick someone up without having to wait on the curb. You wait until they call you to say they are ready to get picked up, you find a parking spot, they meet you at the car, and then you leave.  I'm pretty sure they did this to avoid the mad dash at the front doors, which still happens, but probably to a much-less extent than used to.  -- Jayron 32 13:36, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 * A standard method of paying for parking in the UK is to pay for a certain duration of parking by putting money into a machine, which will give you a ticket stating when you have to leave by. You put the ticket on display on your car, so the parking attendant can check who has/has not paid or over-stayed.  For "validation" (not a term I've heard used here in this context), in the case of car parks owned by a supermarket, shopping mall, etc, the machine will typically also give you a receipt for the amount paid.  You can then hand this in at the till to get a refund (you normally have spend a minimum amount in the shop). Iapetus (talk) 13:32, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Iapetus may be right about car parks (I don't use them) but most on-street parking meters and pay-and-display machines no longer accept money.  It's all done by telephone/credit card using an app.   I don't venture into central London, but if motorists have to pay to park in addition to having to pay the congestion charge that seems rather unfair. 2A00:23C5:318D:5200:5813:75AF:A7A3:BCF (talk) 16:50, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * In the U.S., pre-paying for timed parking is generally restricted to street-side parking meters, actual parking lots (car parks) in the U.S. are usually pay-upon-exit, where your fee is calculated by the time actually spent in the garage. That's why validation works; the validated ticket excuses you from some or all of the money you would normally pay when leaving the lot.  Many garages charge by the whole hour, though charging by the half-hour or quarter-hour are also common.  There are also some flat-rate parking lots, but these are usually restricted to parking around major events (like concerts or sporting events) or other places where everyone is comming at the same time, and leaving at the same time (often amusement parks and beaches have these sort of "pay one price for all day parking", as most people all arrive together in the morning, and stay till closing.  -- Jayron 32 17:04, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * There is also the phenomenon, for both on and off street parking, where you enter your space number and put in the number of coins to guess how long you'll be parking there. In effect, a single parking meter that covers the entire lot. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:45, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Electrical outlets in New Zealand and the United States
Hello. I am interested to know whether an electric device (such as a shaver, for example) that is compatible with electrical outlets in New Zealand would also be compatible with electrical outlets in the United States. Is there a difference that might interfere with compatibility? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:53, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Electrical outlet designs in New Zealand and in the US are quite different. The voltage and frequency are different as well.  However, devices such as shavers (and also computers) are sometimes designed to accept a range of voltages and frequencies: look for markings on your device like "110—240 V, 50—60 Hz".  If you see that, then you only need an adapter plug for the outlet.  If you don't, you need a transformer to deal with the voltage difference.  (You can't do anything about the frequency difference but it probably doesn't matter.)  --76.69.46.228 (talk) 08:12, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * See also Travel Adapters for New Zealand appliances to use in the US. Alansplodge (talk) 08:59, 14 February 2019 (UTC)