Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 January 30

= January 30 =

Category and/or list
Is there a category and/or list of people who were born on, and died on the same date? If not I’d like such a category, and I’m sure many others think the same.Jonteemil (talk) 14:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Death of a newborn within 24 hours of delivery is in about 80% of cases due to prematurity and low-birth-weight, infections, lack of oxygen at birth, and trauma during birth. Of about 150,000 people who die each day across the globe, on average 410 do so on their birthday anniversary. This does not make their 410 names notable. What is the argument for inclusion in such a category or list? DroneB (talk) 16:10, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I think you have misinterpreted me. Date not day. For example Ingrid Bergman would be included in this category/list.Jonteemil (talk) 16:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * "Date" in English can refer to Calendar date among its other meanings. I wrote "birthday anniversary" (linked) for unambiguity. Ingrid Bergman is already notable as the fourth-greatest female screen legend of classic American cinema, not just for the trivia of her death date. But thank you for reminding us of what a shining star she still is. DroneB (talk) 16:49, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I think you once again have misinterpreted me xD. I want a category like for example Category:1911 births. In this category all the people who are notable, for something else than having been born in 1911, are listed and in Category:People who died and were born on the same day all the people who are notable for something else than having been born and died on the same day are listed, such as Ingrid Bergman (and all other people with a Wikipedia article). I hope you understand me now :).Jonteemil (talk) 17:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Our article Birthday effect may have some references that would give a list of baseball players who died on their birthday. In particular, its reference #7 shows that there exists a journal called Death Studies, within which you could search. Or maybe our article’s references themselves give references containing what you’re looking for. Loraof (talk) 16:20, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * William Shakespeare, possibly. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Well I googled it at first and found several lists, but since Wikipedia didn’t pop up, I figured I must be searching the wrong words or something like that. It feels like the Wikipedia I know should have a list, or at least a category of this. Don’t you agree?Jonteemil (talk) 16:32, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Also discussed at Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 July 31. 79.79.49.107 (talk) 16:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Conceptually, it should be "Notable people who died on their birthday anniversaries". Obviously, someone dying less than 24 hours after being born is unlikely to be considered notable. "Same day" and "same date" can be read two ways. "Birthday anniversary" is unambiguous. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:03, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Well, notable people isn’t written in Category:1911 births so I don’t see why it would in this category but the unambiguity in ”birthday anniversary” I guess is good, so perhaps CategoryPeople who died on their birthday anniversary.Jonteemil (talk) 18:36, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, "notable" is not stated, it's understood. That is, we have articles only about notable people. Lists of persons are assumed to be lists of notable persons. Standard procedure. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:11, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Persons with long memories required here. Wikipedia did once have exactly the category you're seeking, but it was deleted in 2006; for the deletion discussion, see Categories for deletion/Log/2006 September 27.
 * We also had a List of people who died on their birthdays, but it was deleted in 2007: see Articles for deletion/List of people who died on their birthdays. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * And it is possible to view deleted pages if you download the archives: April 2007, it's in the file 'wikipedia-en-html.3.7z', the page contains 69 people. -Lindert (talk) 21:35, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you all for the answers! Eventhough I’d like such a category and/or list the results were pretty convincing in the voting so I guess I’ll have to accept it.Jonteemil (talk) 12:45, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If you enter any date, for example November 10, in the search box, it will give you a list of historical events for that day, all notable people (with notability area) born on that day, all the notable people who died on that day (with d.o.b. included) and festivals around the world celebrated on that day. Richard Avery (talk) 14:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * That assumes they're already there. For Gabby Hartnett, who died on his birthday, I found no entries. What the user might need to do is compile such a list, and add names to the individual days as needed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:17, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Globe Artichoke- symbol of reconciliation?
At the Strawberry Hill exhibition of Lost Treasures there is a portrait of Mary Tudor,Queen Dowager of France, and he husband the Duke of Suffolk. Mary holds a globe artichoke in one hand, her other hand clasping her husband's hand. I was told that the artichoke is a symbol of reconciliation. Does anyone know more about this symbol? If it is well founded it would be interesting to add the fact to the history of Globe Artichokes.John Previte (talk) 18:55, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * These references may be helpful: What is Mary Tudor holding and The Queen and the artichoke, although both are subscription service sites. Symbolism of the artichoke may be a royal orb or love and fecundity.Tamanoeconomico (talk) 04:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The article by Roland Hui mentioned by that first link from The Tudor Society can be seen here and it says: "The artichoke from which a caduceus emerges is suggestive of a royal orb, recalling Mary’s former glory as King Louis’ wife. As artichokes were grown in Mediterranean France, the vegetable may have been suggestive of Mary’s former status as its Queen. More likely, it was meant as a symbol of love and fecundity. Artichokes were said to be sacred to the goddess Venus".
 * Perhaps less convincingly, The Feminine Dynamic in English Art, 1485-1603: Women as Consumers, Patrons and Painters (p. 73) By Susan E. James suggests that Mary had introduced the artichoke into England in 1515 and was asserting her "botanical eminence".
 * And finally Medievalism in the modern world: essays in honour of Leslie J. Workman (p. 36) by Richard J. Utz and T. A. Shippey says (of another painting): "This shows a close falcon stooping on what looks suspiciously like an artichoke, but which I take to be a multi-petaled rose ... See also, for instance, the rose that Mary Tudor holds in her right hand in the portrait of Mary Tudor and the Duke of Suffolk". I could only see the search result for this, but maybe everyone else has it wrong!
 * Alansplodge (talk) 19:40, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

WHY IS MY USERNAME UPPERCASE IT SHOULD BE ALL LOWERCASE
-Alexdapineapple (talk) 21:01, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I haven't the foggiest what you are referring to and when you shout in uppercase I lost quite a bit of any desire to find out or do anything about it. Please be more specific, what must a person do to else see this problem? Dmcq (talk) 21:06, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Replied at Help desk. Please only post a question in one place. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:23, 30 January 2019 (UTC)


 * WP:PLEASEDON'TSHOUT --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:22, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The answer to your question is at Naming_conventions_(technical_restrictions). --M @ r ē ino 19:34, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The OP last posted this silly comment, a week ago. Methinks the pineapple has since been harvested. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)