Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 March 8

= March 8 =

Future wine making regions in developing countries?
During a recent dinner conversation someone wondered if there were any areas of the world where the climate is ideal for wine making, but the political/economic situation simply doesn't permit it at all today, however it might someday in the future. Are there any such places? Edgeweyes (talk) 13:19, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * We do have Viticulture although I must admit I haven't read it. Bus stop (talk) 15:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Algeria used to be a major wine producer when it was a French colony (and the industry dates back to Roman times), but the production was largely destroyed after the Algerian War in part but not exclusively for cultural/religious reasons. The underlying conditions are still favorable, however, ebn if production today is extremely limited. See Algerian wine --Xuxl (talk) 15:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * We have Climate categories in viticulture. Bus stop (talk) 16:00, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Is there some reason to limit this to developing countries? I don't know about ideal for wine making, but Grape may be of interest although unfortunately it only shows a whole country level. While the varieties of grapes used for wine are different from those used for most other purposes, I suspect while knowing very little about viticulture, it's likely you could find or develop varieties which would make okay wine in most places you can grow grapes. Iran is a notable example there and indeed Persian wine has a long history which mostly ended with the 1979 Iranian revolution [//www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38771806] [//www.bbc.com/travel/story/20170222-the-secret-behind-irans-fabled-wine]. Indian wine may be another one of interest. While as our article notes, many areas of India aren't suitable as a large country with a number of mountainous regions there clearly are some where it works. Per our article wine making went through a dry patch (pun intended), but it's now developing again.  But anyway the main reason I mention India is because if you look at our article Kashmir is one region shown. While I know almost nothing about the geography and climate of the area, and where exactly in Kashmir is suitable, I'd be surprised if no regions across the LOC are suitable. And very likely into regions which are undisputed as Pakistan territory. Per these sources [//www.dawn.com/news/1214128] [//www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-little-known-pakistani-tribe-that-loves-wine-and-whiskey-fears-its-muslim-neighbors/2016/08/15/9a8483aa-5273-11e6-b652-315ae5d4d4dd_story.html] [//www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-13466250] [//tribune.com.pk/story/975362/the-illicit-wine-makers-of-gilgit-baltistan/] [//www.todayonline.com/world/asia/pakistans-alcohol-industry-booming] [//www.dawn.com/news/1049725], there is a small sometimes tolerated industry in Gilgit-Baltistan (partly supporting my hunch) and  the Kalasha Valleys. While it sounds like other fruit especially mulberries are commonly used, there is definite mention of grapes particularly for the former.  I personally suspect, again remember my earlier caveats, you could develop a wine industry in many different places where it doesn't currently happen or barely currently happens if you wanted to. E.g. [//www.hattenwines.com/making-wine-in-bali/]. And while there may be questions over whether it makes sense compared to other crops that's going to depend a lot of demand and other factors. Defining "ideal" seems tricky, for example, NZ has a number of wine growing regions. Some of these sometimes use helicopters [//www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/cropping/10539002/Whirr-of-warm-air-fends-off-frost-on-grapes] [//www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3527422] and other measures [//www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3589773] to help save crops. Does this mean these aren't ideal?  "At all" is another thing which is probably a lot harder then it seems, e.g. the Pakistan example as well as how you define a region etc. I mean even in Iran I doubt it's been completely eliminated e.g. [//www.singaporewinevault.com/the-enduring-viticulture-of-iran/]. You may have to look for extreme examples like North Korea or Syria or Somalia and even these examples ..... Or to go in a different direction, I live near an area in Auckland where there used to be a lot of vineyards but urbanisation means these have mostly disappeared [//www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/77014711/the-changing-face-of-west-aucklands-vineyard-country]. For now, there are still vineyards further out, but this again hits the issue of what you mean by 'at all'. But taking that example to the extreme, would Beijing be suitable for winemaking? Even if it isn't, I'm sure you could find some massive urban area where this applies depending on how far the closest vineyard has to be before you exclude it. (P.S. I'm not actually sure if Beijing is the best example here and this illustrates the problem. I originally wrote NYC but then considered that maybe it wasn't the best example due to Long Island AVA nearby. I abandoned London and Tokyo after some searches likewise threw them into doubt.)  Nil Einne (talk) 18:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for all the replies.  Especially to Nil Einne for lots of good links for me to read. Edgeweyes (talk) 23:31, 8 March 2019 (UTC)