Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2020 October 10

= October 10 =

how to enter "talk" section in any article?
Hi: Regarding Flags of the Islamic Republic of Iran Armed Forces  I wish to post some comments for discussion by those who post info at that article. I believe I am to click on the "talk" icon/button to leave my inquiry comments, but I do not see where I am to post my questions about the article. All I wish to do is bring to the attention of the authors of that article that their references to an "obsolete" flag but that design-flag is really the "backside" of a flag that has 2 difference images on both sides of that flag. How do I post this question to them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BillGarrisonJr (talk • contribs) 19:21, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * One way is to click the tab called "New section" and enter stuff just as you did here. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:47, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * He probably clicked on -- the 'New section' tab is less obvious. 2606:A000:1126:28D:D89D:9C13:2D19:8B63 (talk) 21:05, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Climate tables in Wikipedia articles: Is the average snowfall included in the overall precipitation?
I've noticed that in articles for cities, under the Climate heading, the table of annual climate normals gives figures for precipitation generally, and then a separate line for snowfall where applicable. See for example the article for Bend, Oregon. In this instance, the average annual precipitation is given as 11.21 inches and the average snowfall as 23.8 inches.

What I'd like to know is this: Does the overall precipitation total of 11.21 inches include the 23.8 inches of snow? Of course, a given measure of snowfall in inches is roughly equivalent to one-tenth that amount of rain. So, would the total annual precipitation for Bend be (roughly) 11.21 + (23.8/10) = 13.59? Or should the average snowfall be understood as being included in the figures for precipitation?Pithecanthropus4152 (talk) 20:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The snowfall should be included in precipitation if the data was entered correctly. The template which renders the climate table has a separate entry for average monthly rainfall. AFAICS weather bureaus across the globe also tend to report precipitation and snowfall, not rainfall and snowfall; rainfall alone is only added as a third piece of data. This could be a WMO rule. Caveat: I'm a layman. 93.142.104.160 (talk) 23:46, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Snowfall is included in precipitation as inches - after it has melted. It is not simply inches of snow plus inches of rain. Rmhermen (talk) 03:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Obliquely relevant to the original questions, I've long wondered whether dew is classified as precipitation, and whether it is included in precipitation statistics. I have previously searched the interwebs about this, but was unable to find a definitive answer. Our current, perhaps unsatisfactory Dew article is silent on the matter, while our Precipitation article makes no mention of dew, and its lede states that all precipitation falls from clouds.
 * Since the deposition of dew can be quite substantial in some locales and circumstances, certainly enough to be significant to plants, I'm puzzled as to why it seems so overlooked. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.121.162.83 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Dew would generally not form (to any significant extent) inside a standard rain gauge, so it won't be part of most records. HiLo48 (talk) 09:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * When there's 5mm of rain, I can be quite sure that there's 5 litres of rain on every square metre of a grass field, on every square metre of a tree on that field (measured by footprint, not total leave area) and on every square metre of a nearby road. With dew that doesn't work out. Measuring the dew collected on a one metre square, 9mm thick plywood plate painted white and pointing up is not very useful, as it says nothing about the dew collected on a grass field two metres below. It's highly dependent on the properties of the surface collecting the dew. It can be modelled in a way similar to how evaporation is modelled, taking inputs like temperature, humidity, incoming radiation (mostly infrared at night) and land use, but it's quite hard to get meaningful numbers. People have tried to measure evaporation using a shallow dish filled with water, but it was found out that that was useless. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Not so. Pan evaporation is a real thing. Definitely used in Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 21:08, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I admit that I don't know about every country in the world. I do know that in my county (Netherlands) these evaporation pans were used in the past, but this was stopped by our national weather service because it was useless. Undoubtedly there are some amateurs whole still collect these numbers. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)


 * No, not just amateurs. The article I linked to makes it clear the US National Weather Service uses them, and I know the Bureau of Meteorology in Australia uses them. HiLo48 (talk) 10:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * "... the pan evaporation may be 25% to 100% greater than ETo [reference evapotranspiration] depending on the location of the pan and the weather conditions". EVAPOTRANSPIRATION ESTIMATES FOR WATER BALANCE SCHEDULING IN THE UK  Alansplodge (talk) 12:12, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I submit that the general climate in most of Australia and big parts of the US is very different from that in the UK. One human created water storage in my state of Australia was officially closed not that long ago because there was too much evaporation to make it worthwhile maintaining. I don't think that's a big issue in the UK. HiLo48 (talk) 22:03, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Not as big certainly, but " in the English Lowlands, annual rainfall totals may be an order of magnitude lower and the concentration of population, commerce and intensive agriculture make for the highest water demands". From Groundwater drought in the UK. Alansplodge (talk) 11:47, 15 October 2020 (UTC)