Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2020 October 14

= October 14 =

Moskovskaya vodka: Russian or Latvian?
I bought this bottle of Moskovskaya pink vodka from my local Alko. Despite the name "Moskovskaya" ("from Moscow") both the bottle itself and the Alko description page claim it's from Latvia. Yet the article about Moskovskaya vodka itself claims it's from Russia. Russia and Latvia haven't been the same country for almost three decades. So which is it, Russian or Latvian? J I P &#124; Talk 00:59, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Our article Moskovskaya (brand) says it is produced in Russia and Latvia. DuncanHill (talk) 01:01, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Looking more closely, it seems from the references in our articles that the trademark is disputed, there may well be more than one "Moskovskaya" on the market. DuncanHill (talk) 01:05, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This might be the reason the site of the distillery that produces the Moskovskaya pink vodka doesn't mention the original vodka at all. J I P  &#124; Talk 01:08, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Enjoy! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.105.98 (talk) 11:06, 14 October 2020 (UTC) Here's a picture of the Russian Moskovskaya vodka compared to the Latvian one I bought. You can see the logos have slightly different fonts and different pictures. It might well be that the same name is used by two different distilleries. J I P &#124; Talk 22:03, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks like its going to be a good weekend. Sunday morning will need fried eggs, bacon, hashbrowns, Orange Juice and sleep.86.150.105.98 (talk) 09:40, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Website where free school books can be downloaded or read without any money
USA, UK, Canada have different class system. https://www.relocatemagazine.com/media/images/ScreenShot2018-10-25at135151_14844_t5.png

Is there any website where the school prescribed books from year 1 to 10, or grade 1 to 10 are accessible for free? Books should be in English language from any country among USA, UK, Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nesspilot (talk • contribs) 05:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I use OpenStax, though many of the books are more high school and college level. However, if you start at that article, in the "See Also" section and elsewhere, you can start exploring various open-source educational resources.  You may be able to find something more able to fit your needs.  -- Jayron 32 11:48, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Disability of doing something
Reading or writing: Dyslexia. Flying planes: Colour-blind. Singing or playing music: Tone-deaf. Sports: I don't know. What else? 86.128.175.75 (talk) 21:34, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * butterfingers. and perhaps
 * I'd go with laziness for the inability to do sport. --TrogWoolley (talk) 09:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Inability to reproduce - infertility
 * Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:11, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Is "disability" the right word here, as opposed to "inability"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:05, 15 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Klutz? Athletically challenged? Clarityfiend (talk) 06:10, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * None of these examples result in inability. Having dyslexia doesn't prevent one from reading or writing; it only makes them more difficult. Being colour-blind doesn't rule out being a pilot. Even a tone-deaf person can sing or play music, though people may not enjoy the performance. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:16, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Dyspraxia. Fgf10 (talk) 08:11, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Vertically impaired: basketball? 2606:A000:1126:28D:A993:1D91:B432:3122 (talk) 06:17, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Again, "makes harder" does not mean "prevents". There have been very successful people who have been near average or below average height who have been successful at basketball.   Ernie Calverley, Allen Iverson, Muggsy Bogues, Spud Webb, etc.  all had successful and top-level careers and were not very tall.  -- Jayron 32 12:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a direct correlation between the month you were born and how successful you are in sport.  See relative age effect. 92.27.12.232 (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * From the given example, dyslexia makes it harder to read and write, but doesn't prevent one from doing so. 2606:A000:1126:28D:A993:1D91:B432:3122 (talk) 14:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, worth pointing out, dyslexia is not itself a cause of difficulty in reading and writing. It is a word that means "difficulty in reading and writing".  There can be a plethora of different causes for dyslexia, but it itself is not a particular cause for the problem, it is just a synonym for it.  -- Jayron 32 14:51, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's relative though. From my POV, only Bogues of those 4 can accurately be described as "not very tall". I'd also note that Bogues is evidently the shortest player ever in NBA and yet was still 1.60 m suggesting that someone 1.50 m must have it very difficult indeed yet this is someone who doesn't even fit a number of definitions of Dwarfism. Edit: I should clarify I'm not disagreeing that height doesn't truly precluding playing in the NBA, rather simply suggesting we shouldn't underestimate the challenges posed considering the evidence of the shortest player ever wouldn't even be considered extremely short in a number of places or contexts, and many of the other "shorter" examples you gave wouldn't even be considered short in a number of places or contexts. Nil Einne (talk) 18:28, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Spud Webb is 5'7"(1.70 m) and Iverson is 6'(1.83 m), and only among a society of munchkins would such men be considered "very tall". Webb is below average, and Iverson is slightly over average, and I would not describe "slightly over average" as "very tall". -- Jayron 32 09:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Below average what? 1.70 is 12 cm above the 1997 self reported average height for 50+ males in Indonesia, or 8.5 cm above the average measured height for Indian rural 17 year old males in 2002, according to Average human height by country. 17 years old is a little young, some may not be quite full height still it seems unlikely it's going to reach 170cm; and okay 50+ is a little old so may be lower height than they were (and of course are also likely to be lower average than the population of Webb's age given increasing heights observed in most of the world over the 20th century). Still even by the measured 1992-1993 25-29 year old Vietnamese male average it's 8cm higher, and the 2006 self-reported Nepalese 25-49 male value it's 7cm higher. The Indonesian one lacks standard deviation I think it's a median rather than a mean, for the others 170 cm is above 1 standard deviation for all. All of these were during or after the time Spud Webb was active. Bolivia Aymara measure 10 cm lower was in 1970 so somewhat before Spud Webb was active although I suspect it was still probably at least 5 cm below by 1985. Perhaps the "very" part technically saved your comment, I did feel I should clarify that point more carefully at the time but couldn't be bothered.* The clear implications of your comments seem to be that this wasn't someone who would be seen as tall, indeed not even "vertically impaired" which lets remember was the OP's comment that you responded to, which I disagree. It depends on your perspective. The fact that the person may not be seen tall in the US doesn't change that he would be elsewhere and definitely very far from "vertically impaired". It's true that getting into the NBA is a lot harder when you aren't an American, even more so in 1985, and maybe there average height of NBA players would go down if everyone had equal opportunities to play basketball and find a route to the NBA as American men, but that doesn't change the fact these people are still likely to be seen as tall, and definitely not vertically impaired. Note that I come from Malaysia my height is above average according to the self-reported height in 1996 for other indigenous (where 170cm is also more than 1 standard deviation above the average), about average for the Malay population in the same (although 170cm is within 1 standard deviation) or slightly below average for Malaysian Chinese which was also my perspective for where I lived which was a middle class urban area where most of the population were Malaysian Chinese. So obviously all the examples except Bogues are taller then me. Our article doesn't seem to give an average for Malaysia in general, but 170 cm is still above the Malaysian Indian, and the demographics of Malaysia suggest it would be somewhere between the Malay and Chinese value, closer to the Malay one although obviously well within 1 standard deviation. Anyway the main point of all this is I felt some degree of confidence in saying that claiming Webb is "vertically impaired" if compared to people's perspective of height in Malaysia in general in the period he was playing (instead of among basketball players or Americans) will get raised eye-brows at a minimum; and the data IMO bears this out. For another perspective, he's 5cm over the height requirement to enter the police in Malaysia [//www.theborneopost.com/2012/07/22/a-tough-road-in-becoming-a-policeman/] and appears to be over or at least meeting the various height requirements for Indian police too [//recruitment.itbpolice.nic.in/statics/Eligibility] [//entrance-exam.net/forum/general-discussion/can-i-become-police-officer-height-165-cm-262054.html] Calling 50+ Indonesian men, rural 17 Indian men, 1970s Bolivian Aymaran men, Vietnamese men, Nepalese men or other indigenous Malaysian men muchkins is frankly offensive but whatever you are entitled to that POV if thats truly how you feel. P.S. I'm aware the quality of some of these may be questionable given only sampling portion of the population yet probably not randomly, and especially since some of them are self-reported. Although I'd note that AFAIK in most countries height is like penis size at least for men i.e. they want the value to be higher. So there seems to be a good chance a self-reported based estimation, like penis size, will overestimate the value. Edit: I see our article supports self-reported generally being higher than measured although of course it varies. It also mentions possible issues with sampling e.g. university students may be higher than the average, regional differences. Nil Einne (talk) 03:05, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * BTW, I had a look at US values in that article. It seems even for 2015-2016 measured values, he was very slightly above the average for Mexican Americans. Technically he was above the average for Asian Americans as well as Hispanic and Latino Americans although 170cm is such a round number it almost definitely lacks that precision. Frankly it may lack the precision even for Mexican Americans, I'd say there are enough variables that even carefully defined measured and defined height e.g. without shoes should only be considered within 1-3 cm, and I can't be bothered looking into the details for Webb's height. (As a case in point, if you go by my passport I'm actually about average rather than below average for Malaysian Chinese although I've never cared enough to check the 3 cm difference between what I normally report and what's on my passport. And just noticed our article mentions time of data e.g. 1.54cm difference over the day for children related to differences from lying down and exercise. Although in the particular case of Webb, while perhaps in the early part of his career maybe there tended to be an over estimation of his height, I wonder if by the time he made it to the NBA, it might be an underestimation since "he's so short" was I assume a selling point.) Still the main point stands, even in the US and nearly 20 years after he played, Webb being below average depended on the population involved. Among the US average or the African American one, sure he was below average, although I expect still within 1 standard deviation and within the 25th quartile. Calling such a person "vertically impaired" in general, even in the US seems a real stretch to me. Nil Einne (talk) 04:12, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * *When I read you comment, the way it was phrased and given the comment you responded to was about "vertically impaired", the "not very tall" initially came across to me as more in the form of 'not particularly tall' rather than this person isn't "very tall". And whatever people may argue "very tall" means, saying someone who is above 1 standard deviations of height for males is 'not particularly tall' IMO remains questionable. When I re-read decided I had maybe misunderstood, and perhaps the "very tall" bit was how it was intended and even if it wasn't I'm sure there would be arguments over it. I should have said something at the time, but I couldn't be bothered instead just made sure every other part of my initial comment concentrated on the fact these people weren't short let alone "very short", which is ultimately how I would interpret "vertically impaired". (Even if you disagree about the "very" a definition for vertically impaired which doesn't mean short is odd.) So as I think my followups make clear, even if you want to argue that someone who is above 1 standard deviation of height for males is 'not particularly tall', saying they are vertically impaired, is highly questionable. Ergo why I felt none of them except perhaps Bogues (and even then...), none of them seemed a good example of someone who was vertically impaired playing for the NBA taking the general perspective of such populations which I would argue are not muchkins. Nil Einne (talk) 04:24, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a whole lot of effort spent on a not-very-important discussion. But hey, you got to feel like you're better than me by "proving me wrong" for whatever that means, so you've got that going for you.  Good for you?  I guess?  -- Jayron 32 11:43, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I saw Bogues at a live game once. He looked like a dwarf among trees. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I really hate paying good money to watch the dead play. Also, did Japanese fans shout bonsai whenever Bogues dunked? Clarityfiend (talk) 07:09, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yet he was someone who would potentially be above average height among 50+ men in Indonesia at the time further demonstrating the point. Nil Einne (talk) 03:05, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Inability, then. 86.128.175.75 (talk) 21:11, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

According to Google... Reading or writing: Dyslexia. Flying planes: Fear of flying. Singing or playing music: Music-specific disorders, amusia & tone-deafness. Sports: Not sure. 86.128.175.75 (talk) 21:24, 16 October 2020 (UTC)