Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2020 September 8

= September 8 =

How we know that certain website it authentic or not
i want to know whether https://asphalt.fandom.com/wiki/Asphalt_9:_Legends website is authentic or not.````ArtagalGhazi — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArtagalGhazi (talk • contribs) 16:04, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * How do you mean "authentic"? It looks to be a real website.  The information therein is not suitable to use as a source for Wikipedia, however, because it is not a reliable source.  -- Jayron 32 16:26, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Wrong photo
Please take a look at the photo titled "Pima Indians from Arizona. Chief Blue Wing and family." Department of Anthropology, 1904 World's Fair.jpg" Those don't look like any Indians from Arizona I've ever seen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.240.216.26 (talk) 16:15, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * This photo? Yes, that looks mislabeled.  I have filed a request at commons to have it renamed.  -- Jayron 32 16:20, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The (obvious) error is from here: 2606:A000:1126:28D:EDA5:45D4:346D:C7A0 (talk) 16:57, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * A more likely candidate is: 'Ota Benga, who had been sold along with seven other people to the American Samuel Verner, who had traveled to King Leopold’s Congo Free State under the auspices of the fair’s Anthropology Department to purchase Mbuti “pygmies” with the sole purpose of exhibiting them at the fair. Benga, who was about twenty at the time of his sale, had had his teeth filed into sharp points as a child, and was exhibited at the fair as a “cannibal.” Benga and the other enslaved Africans sometimes danced and performed before as many as twenty thousand people at a time'. Apparently the unfortunate Benga was later exhibited in a cage at the Bronx Zoo.  Alansplodge (talk) 18:07, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * See also File:Pygmies not Pima.jpg. --Lambiam 19:10, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * You should contact The Missouri Historical Society and inform them of the error. 2606:A000:1126:28D:EDA5:45D4:346D:C7A0 (talk) 19:30, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Theoretically they could have been Black Indians. 2003:F5:6F0A:5A00:11D3:AC15:98F8:D5F1 (talk) 08:52, 10 September 2020 (UTC) Marco PB

Dashed center line in the UK and Ireland
I've noticed that in the UK and Ireland some roads with multiple lanes in each direction have a dashed center line (although it seems to have longer dashes than lines between lanes in the same direction). Does this mean traffic is allowed to overtake over the center line? 93.136.0.221 (talk) 18:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The dashed line in the middle of the road is there to separate traffic flows but you can cross it to overtake if it's safe to do so.
 * The longer-dashed line indicate that there's a hazard which might not be obvious, so should be crossed with extra caution.
 * Double lines where one line is solid and one is broken means that you can overtake on the broken side of the road, but not on the unbroken side.
 * Double solid lines means no overtaking in either direction, although you can move around a parked vehicle, a horse or a cyclist if safe.
 * See UK road markings: what they mean and what the Highway Code says. The Highway Code is "a set of information, advice, guides and mandatory rules for road users in the United Kingdom" issued by the Department for Transport. Not sure about Ireland though.
 * Alansplodge (talk) 19:20, 8 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Rereading your question, perhaps you're asking about a Dual carriageway? Yes, you can cross those lines into another lane to overtake, but you're supposed to pull back in afterwards (not everyone is very good at that part). Heavy goods vehicles are not allowed in the outside lane (i.e. nearest to the centre) if there are more than two lanes in each direction. Alansplodge (talk) 19:26, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Interesting. That would be forbidden just about everywhere else I know of. I actually presumed that this was just an odd British way of marking what we mark with a solid or double solid white line in continental Europe. Do you ever get confused about which middle lanes go in which direction? 93.136.0.221 (talk) 20:01, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Speaking as another Brit, I think you may have, at least partially, misunderstood what AlanSplodge meant: note that in all of the photos in the Dual carriageway article, opposing streams of traffic are separated by a wide, grassed median divider (dual carriageways always have a physical division, hence "dual"), the white lines on the tarmac demarcate lanes all going in the same direction.
 * To answer your last question, on a UK Single carriageway (where there is no physical median divider) the division between opposing streams of traffic is always much more obvious than, and distinct from, any divisions between lanes going in the same direction, and a driver qualified in the UK would have to be unusually tired, drunk or otherwise mentally befuddled to become confused: thus such mistakes are rare, though of course they occur occasionally.
 * A prominent ongoing case is that of Harry Dunn, who was killed by a US citizen, temporarily resident in the UK, driving on the wrong side of the road. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.2.158 (talk) 08:39, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah you're right I misread him. He was talking about two physical roadways, and I'm talking about a single roadway, something like this, or imagine if this had a single dashed line instead of double solid down the middle. 93.136.121.193 (talk) 01:26, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In America double solid lines are yellow and probably all other lines where opposite non-reversible travel lanes touch but I never drove so not sure. Motorways in cities have short concrete walls that are a pain in the balls for even slightly short-legged men to cross. They're named Jersey barriers after the state bordering Manhattan and Philadelphia. Thus it's very unlikely for drunk or unconscious drivers to cross accidentally and wastes less width at the cost of more money. The Lincoln Tunnel in essentially central Manhattan has triple tubes with no shoulder and still sometimes has opposites lanes divided by only a skiing slalom course stick every few meters and single solid line signifying no passing even when there isn't a lane in each direction. Huge buses routinely fly past each other with inches to spare on all clearances at closing velocities of about 100kph. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:41, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
 * To illustrate, here is an example of a single-carriageway with multiple lanes, from near where I live:
 * There is a single lane running SSE, and a double lane running NNW.
 * These are divided by a solid/dashed line, indicating that cars heading SSE are allowed to overtake, but those heading NNW are prohibited from crossing the dividing line. (Remember: we drive on the left in the UK).
 * The two lanes running NNW are divided by short dashes (the "normal" lane markers).
 * Here is the same road approaching a junction. The central dividing line is now two solid lines, indicating that crossing the line is prohibited (regardless of which direction you are going).  The lane markings are now long dashes, indicating a hazard (the junction).  Iapetus (talk) 09:20, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * We have a lot of those too ofc, but that's not what I meant. I'm talking about only a single dashed line, without any solid lines at all. 93.136.121.193 (talk) 01:00, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

My impression (and it is only that) is that these kind of roads (multiple lanes for traffic travelling in the same direction, separated from opposite-travel lanes by merely paint on the road surface) are not generally favoured by highway authorities (for safety reasons), and existing ones are sometimes redesigned to eliminate the potential lane crossing hazard. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:49, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Is this why suburban suicide lanes are a thing? That's the common name here. They wasted a whole lane just for partial head-on collision risk reduction? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:33, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The purpose of suicide lanes is to allow for left-turning traffic (in the U.S. and other right-driving countries. In the UK and other left-driving countries, reverse directions) a place to wait for a clear path WITHOUT impeding the flow of traffic for other cars.  When properly installed, they are VERY useful in keeping traffic flowing on the main road.  I would say (through experience) that a four-line (two each direction) without a suicide lane is actually less efficient than a 3-lane road (1 in each direction with a suicide lane).  Even with two free-flowing lanes, if there isn't a clear place for left-turning vehicles to wait out of the main flow of traffic, it can back up even both lanes as everyone dodges around that person.  With the so-called suicide lane, they can wait semi-safely for an opening without anyone having to wait for them to turn.  -- Jayron 32 15:47, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Places for turning across the traffic in the UK are marked out as separate lanes like this. We used to have central overtaking lanes in the UK, known as "chicken lanes", but I haven't seen one for years. There was a famously dangerous one on the North Circular Road at Bounds Green, but it was removed a long time ago. Alansplodge (talk) 16:54, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes! That's the sort of marking I'm talking about (lower half of the picture), except for the turn right arrows. You have multiple lanes in at least one direction, but ALL lanes are separated by single dashed lines. I've found a 4+lane example here . Would this marking without right turn arrows mean that if the yellow car turning right in your picture wasn't there, someone coming from the top might switch to his lane to overtake the silver MX5 in the bottom right of the picture? 93.136.121.193 (talk) 01:00, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * "Would this marking without right turn arrows....?" - except the right turn arrows are there, and that's the purpose for which the lane has been left clear. If you look at the top of that picture, you will see that the middle lane is painted with solid diagonal stripes, and it is a pretty safe bet that beyond the bottom of the picture (out of our sight) they are painted also. Those solid painted stripes are a 'no-go' area, effectively a cheap version of a solid raised barrier, and vehicles aren't supposed to cross them. (Having painted lines rather than a solid barrier also allows emergency vehicles etc. to use the lane when required). Such areas (the solid striped ones) also tend to accumulate all the dirt, grit and loose detritus that gets dislodged by moving traffic, and this muck tends not to be swept away with any regularity, so that any vehicle moving over such areas with any speed (e.g. in an overtaking manoeuvre - whether legal or not), will tend to kick up a lot of stones etc. in a way that's rather unkind to painted bodywork. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 05:26, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * See my link in the 4th sentence. 93.136.121.193 (talk) 07:09, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * That's Ireland. Ireland is a different jurisdiction to the UK. I drive in the UK, and could only make speculative comments about Irish road codes. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Well wherever it is I'm interested in what it means. I did put Ireland too in the title. This does however explain why I couldn't find it after a lot of searching in the London satellite view. 93.136.121.193 (talk) 07:50, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * This article says that there are six surviving examples of a central overtaking lane in the UK, but three of those have probably been removed already. Alansplodge (talk) 18:23, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * BTW, UK road deaths per 100,000 = 2.9, vs US deaths per 100,000 = 12.4 despite a traffic density of UK = 77 vehicles per km of road, vs US = 31 vehicles per km of road. Alansplodge (talk) 16:54, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * My New Yorkiness must be showing as I'm too used to one-way roads. Times Square goes south for instance, next one (6th Avenue) goes north, 5th Avenue goes South, Madison goes north, Park goes both ways somehow with a median, 8th goes north, 9th south, the UN road goes north and so on and all but the biggest cross streets are east if the name is a multiple of two. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:28, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Here's another example from my city (Zagreb). You have three lanes going up and one lane going down. The dashed yellow line however means that line going down is reserved for trams and taxis, not that overtaking is allowed. Now I've seen this kind of layout in UK and Ireland where the line is white and the opposite lane(s) are obviously for all traffic, so what does that mean there? 93.136.121.193 (talk) 01:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In the UK, there are sometimes two lanes going up a steep hill, like this or this, so that you can overtake lorries that are struggling with the gradient; on the single downhill lane, there is no overtaking. Alansplodge (talk) 17:47, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 * In the Republic of Ireland, some National primary roads have a hard shoulder marked by a broken yellow line like this; my understanding is that you are allowed to move out of the main lane onto the hard shoulder to allow vehicles behind you to overtake. Alansplodge (talk) 18:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)