Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2021 April 17

= April 17 =

Why do these three breeds of cat (the Turkish Angora, the Turkish van, and the Persian cat) have long hair, when they all originated in warm countries!
Why do these three cats have long hair, when animals that live in warmer climates have shorter hair, while animals that live in colder climates have longer hair and sometimes, and in some cases, like the Russian blue, a thicker coat! Did these three cats get long hair through selective breeding, a mutation, or did they naturally have long hair?

Also, did the Norwegian Forest cat and the Siberian cat while the people who had their possibly short-haired ancestors developed long coats while the people who had them migrated to Siberia and Norway?

Answermeplease11 (talk) 16:15, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * The Persian cat article indicates that the origin of the long-haired cat is unknown. But keep in mind that breeds of cats, dogs, etc. arise from selective breeding. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:39, 17 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Also be aware that the winters in Turkey and Iran (Persia) can be very cold - our article on Turkey's capital, Ankara, states that winter temperatures have gone as low as -24°C (-12°F). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 19:56, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
 * For Van, an even lower -28.7 C has been recorded. --Lambiam 15:29, 18 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Cats do not sweat through their skin when they threaten to overheat, so naked skin, which helps cooling through evaporation in humans, offers no advantage to hot cats. On the contrary, the cat's fur is not only helpful when it is cold; it also serves as thermal isolation for a cool cat venturing into a hot sunny area. --Lambiam 15:29, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

This either means that these three cats were created when long-haired cats were selectively bred with other breeds, or they might have gotten their long coats through mutations. I also believe that Khao manee cats from Thailand were used to create the Turkish angora, as well as long-haired breeds, and a few others.

Answermeplease11 (talk) 17:52, 18 April 2021 (UTC)Answermeplease11


 * Van cats were (and are) selectively bred. For nearly every breed of domesticated animal, assume selective breeding. Even in pigs, which may look similar, there is extensive selective breeding. When I worked for a pig company, one of my jobs was to keep a database of fat marbelization per pig so they could selectively breed pigs to get perfect marbelization depending on the end customer base. In the U.S., they want no fat. In Japan, they want half centimeter marbles spaced two centimeters apart. That created the U.S. and Japan pig breeds within the company. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 12:18, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

I have an idea for Wikipedia
Can we put on NSFW and NSFL warnings for certain articles, images, and pages? This sounds like a good idea to me, but I need to know if anyone agrees with me. I decided to come up with this after Miraheze started using them. (If you know what it is).

Answermeplease11 (talk) 19:46, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * No. Wikipedia is not censored for valid content. Also, NSFW generally means "not safe for work". What, pray tell, does NSFL mean? And who or what is "Miraheze"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:50, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

If you want to know what NSFL means, it means Not Safe For Life. And if you want to know what Miraheze is, its just a really good wiki farm. Get more information either by logging into it, or ask another person.

Answermeplease11 (talk) 21:09, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * What is "Not Safe For Life" supposed to mean? If you read it, you die? And who's to decide what's "Safe For Work"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:15, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

If you want to know what NSFL means, go ask the question in your talk page, and answer me when you’ve been answered back.

Answermeplease11 (talk) 21:17, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * Not necessary. It's discussed under Not safe for work. And I would say the closest thing to it here would be the so-called "bad images" list, which are specific explicit images used only for specific articles and are not allowed to be used in other articles. Those kinds of things are decided by the Wikipedia user community. But in general, NSFW is not appropriate to Wikipedia, because it's too subjective. An example could be the occasional controversy over antique images depicting Muhammad. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:38, 17 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The relevant wikipedia pages are:
 * WP:NOTCENSORED
 * Content disclaimer
 * WP:NSFW
 * Mitch Ames (talk) 13:28, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The OP won't be back. He's been indeffed as a sock of a couple of other users. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Why are Skye Terriers so rare, and how can they become popular again?
I would like to know how the breed became so rare, and how it is possible to get their attention regained. We could possibly put them back in the wild, but what would happen if we put them their? Would that be illegal?

Answermeplease11 (talk) 20:39, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * Have you tried looking for a forum that's specifically about cat breeds? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:52, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I’m talking about dogs, not cats!

Answermeplease11 (talk) 21:03, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * So, have you tried looking for a forum that's about dog breeds? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:05, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, I did try petforums.co.uk, but my account has been awaiting confirmation for a few days now. That is why I need wikipedia for answers, plus, I really like this website.

Answermeplease11 (talk) 21:22, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11


 * "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." (from the top of this page). --ColinFine (talk) 21:28, 17 April 2021 (UTC)


 * , where can I put my opinions on Wikipedia? Or do I have to put them on a different website?

Answermeplease11 (talk) 21:31, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11


 * The latter, I'm afraid, . Please look at WP:NOTFORUM. --ColinFine (talk) 21:35, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Well,, I wasn’t asking if Skye terriers could be put back in the wild, but rather about why they are so rare.

Answermeplease11 (talk) 21:44, 17 April 2021 (UTC)Answermeplease11
 * Who says they're rare, and by what definition? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:52, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Well,, ask if Skye Terriers are rare/endangered on your talk page, and most people will say yes. I even wanted to buy one myself to make the breed regain popularity, and also put up posters of the dog. Plus, do you even know what a Skye terrier is?

Answermeplease11 (talk) 22:00, 17 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11
 * The Skye Terrier page discusses the fact that it's a rare breed. Not as rare as the Dodo or the Passenger Pigeon or the Wooly Mammoth, though. Wikipedia is not intended for advocacy. You should find a forum dedicated to the subject and see what they have to say about it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:09, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

, the only reason I need answers from Wikipedia is that when anyone asks a question on dogforum.com, the person who posted the question sometimes doesn’t answer, or in other cases, no one answers you. That is why I ask questions on Wikipedia, because i am worried about answers not coming. Plus, can we start a website called Wikipedia forums? I believe it would be great for people with their own opinions and ideas!

Answermeplease11 (talk) 22:39, 17 April 2021 (UTC)Answermeplease11


 * Please read What Wikipedia is not. One can imagine many things that would be wonderful to do with a website; it does not follow that they ought to be done under the Wikimedia umbrella.  Start your own website. —Tamfang (talk) 05:50, 18 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I have the impression that you are confusing the concept of breed with that of species. Dog breeds are created artificially by human intervention; they do not come out of the wild, so they cannot be "put back in". All dog breeds are the same species, Canis lupus subsp. familiaris. They are not defined by genotype but by phenotype, Different genotypes may yield the same phenotype, the characteristics of which for a given dog breed are described in the form of a breed standard defined by a kennel club. If a bunch of purebred dogs are released into the wild, the surviving ones will interbreed with other feral dogs, and any breed characteristics will be lost in one or two generations. Any breed that has disappeared can in principle be "bred back" – not as a wild type, of course, but to conform to the standard's phenotype. But while theoretically possible, this will require a sustained concerted effort, which for a dog breed is unlikely to be undertaken unless there is a steady and substantial demand. And if there is such demand, how to explain that the breed disappeared? --Lambiam 08:30, 18 April 2021 (UTC)


 * You ask quite a lot of questions about domestic animal breeds. If a breed is rare, it can be because the breed isn't popular or because it has been defined very narrowly. The more breeds there are, in particular if there are many similar breeds, the less individuals of that breed there will be. Rare breeds tend to suffer heavily from inbreeding, which is why many pet owners prefer pets that are not of "pure blood". Around here we call then ash tray breeds. They tend to be healthier. This makes rare breeds even rarer until they disappear, which is probably a good thing. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you mean "trashcan breed"? "Ashtray breed" would suggest a dollhouse-style miniature breed. --Lambiam 09:32, 18 April 2021 (UTC)Answermeplease11 (talk) 13:30, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, both terms (ashtray breed and trashcan breed; indeed I'm translating from dutch) seem to be used as synonyms. I guess there's some regional variation. PiusImpavidus (talk) 16:28, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The Dutch term asbak is polysemic. The original meaning was a large receptacle for depositing the ashes from a stove, which could be a removable tray beneath the grate of a stove (the ash pan or ash drawer), or more commonly a separate bucket set aside for the purpose in which still burning embers could safely burn out. When smoking became popular, the diminutive asbakje was used for a smaller, usually dish-shaped receptacle for the ash of pipes and cigars. The original sense of a large receptacle for ashes fell in disuse in two stages. First, asbak acquired a more general sense of a bucket for trash in general, a synonym of vuilnisbak; it survives in that sense regionally as well as in some compounds (e.g. asbakpisser). Later, when there was little risk for confusion, the diminutive was dropped from asbakje. English ashtray has the exclusive sense of a small receptacle for the ash and butts from cigars and cigarettes, and is not a suitable for translating Dutch terms in which the sense of vuilnisbak survives. Source: entry asbak at etymologiebank.nl. --Lambiam 08:49, 20 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Dog breeds can become popular by having been the breed of canine movie stars. The OG of these breeds is the German shepherd, the breed of Rin Tin Tin. The Rough Collie gained a tremendous popularity through the Lassie films. The popularity of the Griffon Bruxellois went up sharply from the dog character Verdell in As Good As It Gets. The Chihuahua became much more popular through the the role of Moonie as the character Bruiser from Legally Blonde and its sequels, while its older companion Gidget, better known as the "Taco Bell chihuahua", also contributed its share of cuteness. So to make a dog breed popular, just create a blockbuster film or TV serial featuring one or more exemplars as central, beloved characters. --Lambiam 09:50, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Guess what! My post on dog forums got replies! Here’s what they said, right in this link

Answermeplease11 (talk) 13:30, 18 April 2021 (UTC) Answermeplease11