Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2021 June 28

= June 28 =

Coconut flavour question
Bounty chocolates, for example, are flavoured with coconut, and I like the refreshing, mild taste. But then once, when I travelled to Austria, there was a vendor selling Meine kleine Kokosnuss ("my little coconut") with real coconuts with a hole drilled in them and a straw for drinking the juice. There were both alcoholic and non-alcoholic versions. I bought a non-alcoholic version and started drinking it. It tasted completely horrible, far too bitter and not at all mild like the Bounty chocolates. Why the difference? Are coconuts supposed to taste like Bounty chocolates (discounting the actual chocolate of course) or was I just given a bad one or what? J I P &#124; Talk 00:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Bounty bars are 48% sugar. They contain more sugar than they do coconut. I've had fresh coconut juice, on the shores of the Bay of Bengal, from green coconuts picked by lithe young men who scamper up the palms, and open them with a slash of a machete. Jolly nice. I've also had coconut juice from brown coconuts that had travelled half way round the world and were sold by fat blokes at fairgrounds. It was grim. So, I suspect 1) you (like most humans) like sugar, and 2) Austria may not be the best place to get fresh coconuts. DuncanHill (talk) 00:41, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I rarely consume coconut (whether in Bounty bars or otherwise), partly because I don't like the texture or 'mouthfeel' of the flesh, but from what I recall from my distant youth in the Far East the taste of the 'milk' and that of the flesh are by no means the same. Moreover, milk I recall drinking directly from a brown coconut obtained in the UK was certainly not bitter, so your Austrian example was probably 'bad' in some way. Did the vendor, by any chance, claim to have a lovely bunch of coconuts? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.125.73.1 (talk) 06:58, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Coconut water (not really a milk) just tastes like sweetened water to me. It is the flesh that tastes of coconut. And if the vendor is somehow adding alcohol what else are they adding?--Shantavira|feed me 07:15, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * It may have been fermented coconut water (which requires adding sugar, or else you get a sour drink). The meat of young green coconuts is bitter, but the water of young coconuts should not be bitter at all. --Lambiam 13:51, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say the meat of young green coconuts is bitter, IMO it's actually quite a pleasant taste especially if you get a good coconut, actually the best part of a young coconut IMO which isn't to say the water is bad. Also as others have mentioned coconut water does taste fairly different from the meat or the taste you'll normally identify as "coconut". It does have its own taste, but it's not particularly strong. Note that coconut water should not be confused with coconut milk or cream. Coconut water is just the liquid/water/juice inside a coconut, generally an immature one as the amount of liquid reduces as it develops. Coconut milk is made by extracting from the pulp ("meat"/flesh) of mature coconut. As for the OP, like others I wonder what sort of processing was involved such that an alcoholic version exists. Maybe more importantly thought, this could have just been a bad/off coconut. Like most food, they aren't immune to having problems especially if stored improperly or too old (and I don't mean mature). BTW I don't know about Finland or Austria, but at least here in NZ it's fairly easy to get coconut water in cans. It's obviously not as good as from a coconut, but IMO if you get one which is mostly just coconut water it's close enough to give you a decent idea or what it tastes like. Maybe keep an eye out for any weirdness in ingredients. (I'm not so much talking about stuff added for preservation etc, unless you have a personal dislike of whatever they used. But it's possible you'll get some weird stuff. I once tried a can of sugarcane juice which seemed quite weird compared to fresh sugar cane juice I was used to from Malaysia. Looking at the ingredients, I decided the problem is it was too dilute/had too much water and to try and make up for that they added refined sugar.) Nil Einne (talk) 13:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Learning english
This is a strange question, specially ask at english motherlanguage. But after many tryes, always failing and humiliating myself, I hope in the lateral thinking. My nationality is clear looking my IP: italian.

I don't know english language. In the compulsory school the english is a school subject, but after years in elementary (5 years), middle (3 years) and superior school (5 years), nothing. It's a deadly bore just in grammar, and my teachers weren't that great.

But the grammar don't care for me. The problem is my incapacity to explain what I want to tell. In write and speak form. Now Google translate help me in this question, but I bet I'm making a lot of mistakes, and rightly you are mocking me. And when I listen a dialogue, I don't understand nothing. It is true, you speak very fast and shorten words, especially the britishes, but I am not able to understand anything anyway.

Someone tell me that a good strategy is whatching films and serie TV in english, and I try it but I don't understand nothing. I put the subtitles in english, but for all the time I read the subtitles, and I don't learn nothing and it is very bored. And I don't try to whatch heavy and challenging film, but animations. Kung Fu Panda was difficult but I did it, with Madagascar at some point I got desperate and turned everything off.

I try with seral courses, but they are too expensive and only Italian is spoken. And with the covid pandemy they are all close.

Now I'm in a world (university and job) where english is important. In addition to the fact that I am obliged to have a B2 certification I would like to learn english, to can read and write without Google Translate, to don't speak like a brain-damaged person in the throes of spasms and mainly to can understand a dialogue o talk in english. And in a future prevision to go to work in a foreign country.

I try this way: for you, dear enghlish motherlanguage, what can I do to learn english (minimum for a B2 level)? thank you, have a good day

--146.241.182.71 (talk) 12:07, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think you have answered your own question. Forget websites, apps, film & TV, all that stuff. The only way to learn a language is to attend an in-person class with a teacher, either one-to-one or in a group. You say they are too expensive, but if you're serious about learning English it will be money well spent. Good ones should speak mostly in the target language (i.e. English), not in Italian. And they should be reopening again this autumn. Go to facebook groups and get recommendations for good language schools in your area. This is the only way to go but it will take months depending on how many classes per week you are able to take. --Viennese Waltz 12:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You are correct that your post included many mistakes, but no one is mocking you. You acknowledged yourself English is not your native language and you have not learned it well. So there is no reason for anyone to mock you. J I P  &#124; Talk 12:59, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * One way is to be in an English speaking country, with no one around that speaks your native language and then be forced to communicate in English. I have seen this work for people that have done a lot of schooling, but were not confident to open their mouth and say something. After 2 weeks they could speak English. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:05, 28 June 2021 (UTC)


 * There are websites for this. I have tried learning Spanish using Duolingo. It is not based on learning all the grammar and other (boring) stuff, but teaches by doing examples. It will get you started at least I think. Note that you need a computer or mobile device with a microphone and speaker for the spoken tests. Rmvandijk (talk) 13:28, 28 June 2021 (UTC)


 * (ec) Duolingo offers free language courses. I only hear enthusiastic reports from people taking Duolingo courses. Once you reach a certain level of understanding the spoken words, listening to TV shows starts to become helpful. Especially in sitcoms, the actors speak mostly in full and clearly enunciated sentences and do not interrupt each other as much as in, say, an action movie. Use Italian subtitles for understanding, but let your brain unconsciously process the sound and learn to segmentize it into phonemes. Also, once you reach the stage that you can read English and understand most of it, reading a lot helps you to build up your English vocabulary – but you must look up each word you don't understand, as tiring as this is. Finally, if you have the opportunity, you might try to stage an English-language play in which you are one of the actors. Learning your text by heart (while understanding its structure and meaning) really helps to develop your English-language abilities. Alternatively, you might learn the lyrics of English-language songs that you like, again while understanding the structure and meaning of the sentences. Many modern songs have pretty cryptic lyrics though. Ballads and country music tend to have more accessible texts, but may not be your taste. --Lambiam 13:34, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Your written English has some errors but it is understandable, so you are making good progress. I tried to learn a little bit of Italian and as a total beginner, I found three things helped: 1) My first day in Italy, I had to wait in the Florence (Firenze) train station a whole day. The repeated loudspeaker announcements ("Train to Bologna arriving on track 2 in 10 minutes" etc.) helped me get used to hearing words and sounds in the language.  2) Reading children's books also helped. They use simple language and careful grammar. 3) Listening to spoken conversations a lot also helped get used to the words and sounds. I think a lot of grammar emerges from sounds rather than just syntax.  So it is important to hear the spoken language a lot.

You are much more advanced in English than I was in Italian, so the next thing for you is probably to read fiction and newspapers in English when you can. Maybe there is a novel you have already read in Italian, so if you read it in English, you can follow it more easily. Again, that will help you get used to the patterns of the grammar. There are linguistic theorists who think that a language's grammar really is part of its lexicon (that is, grammar is associated with the actual words, rather than separate rules of syntax) and that says, if you learn a lot of words and idioms, you will automatically get better at grammar.

Finally, as other people have said, it can help to work with an English as a Second Language (ESL) teacher, or take a class. The teacher can help you with more complicated grammatical topics. But, I think that is "advanced": it is more important to get more comfortable with speaking and reading. There are lots of English speakers everywhere, who you can practice with. I think you are at a level now where you can converse without much trouble, so it's just a matter of doing it more. 2602:24A:DE47:BA60:8FCB:EA4E:7FBD:4814 (talk) 04:51, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

What is the source for this image?
What is/where can I find the source for this image? The credit line says "Scala/Art Resource, NY", but I haven't been able to find it so far. Is there a public domain image of this statue? Thanks, Tyrone Madera (talk) 22:29, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Scala/Art Resource are here and here. DuncanHill (talk) 22:42, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thanks! I managed to find the source image, which is, unfortunately, (Predictably) under copyright. Tyrone Madera (talk) 18:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)


 * A larger version is found here, without identifying its source. --Lambiam 23:48, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thanks! Is there a public domain image of the statue? Tyrone Madera (talk) 18:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I had no luck finding one. --Lambiam 20:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thank you for trying :) Tyrone Madera (talk) 17:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Tyrone Madera, archive,org has a number of depictions of the same man here, but unfortunately not the same statue. Alansplodge (talk) 10:33, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thank you :). I found a lot of images here, thankfully, which is helpful. However, I don't know how to find the source of these images, which seem to be from the Brooklyn Museum, or if they are public domain. Tyrone Madera (talk) 14:24, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * They have a footnote saying: Avertissement important - Photos à usage de consultation et de recherche uniquement; toute reproduction est soumise à autorisation des détenteurs du copyright. ("Important notice - photos to be used only for consultation and research; all reproduction is subject to the permission of the copyright holders"). Alansplodge (talk) 14:33, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , Thank you for finding that. That answers that question :) Tyrone Madera (talk) 21:11, 3 July 2021 (UTC)