Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2021 May 16

= May 16 =

Faithless electors (U.S. Elecoral College)
Hi, it has always been a great curiosity of mine about it. As for the faithless presidential electors of the american Electoral College, there are states that punish - albeit symbolically, I believe - precisely these voters. In some States this law is in force, but some are States where the vote is purely formal, I mean that the presidential voter is given only the ballot of the winning state ticket, so in fact the voter cannot be faithless, that is to say change your vote. He can abstain, or ratify the victory of the ticket. Certain things have made it difficult for me to understand I am not an American. Can anyone clarify this passage for me, please? Thank you.


 * As the section shows, this is rather a mixed bag. Each state has its own way of presenting the ballot to their electors. It does make sense for a winner-takes-all state to restrict the candidates on that ballot to those of the winning ticket. I do not know of any specific examples, though. This should be regulated by the laws of the state concerned. According to, the electors in New Jersey cast ballots by checking the name of the candidate on a pre-printed card (so this card could list only the winners), whereas the electors in North Carolina write the name of the candidate on a blank card (leaving the possibility of being faithless open to them). When you write, "this passage", are you referring to a passage that you found in some text? If so, can you give as a reference to that text?  --Lambiam 09:15, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi. First of all thanks for the reply, you were very specific. By "passage", I meant the Wiki page's explanation of this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector). Not that it was ambiguous, but I wanted to deepen a little more in this I was referring to the page itself - I repeat - not to a particular paragraph. Thanks again.

When was Cueva de las Manos rediscovered?
I have two sources that appear to conflict with each other when it comes to when Cueva de las Manos was first rediscovered: The former appears to state that the site was first rediscovered in 1941, and the latter states that it was first rediscovered in 1881. I'm looking to use the correct date based on the totality of the evidence available. What is the correct date to use in the wiki article? Thanks, Tyrone Madera (talk) 16:33, 16 May 2021 (UTC).


 * My reading is that the site itself was first (re)discovered (i.e. after its last indigenous habitation around 700 AD/CE) in 1881, and the cave art was (re)discovered in 1941 when Father De Agostini was the first (modern) person to notice it. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.125.73.196 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:54, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That was my first reading too, but per Lambiam below it seems to be 1941. I suppose it makes more sense, given how hard it would be to miss the hand stencils if you found the cave. Tyrone Madera (talk) 18:57, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The "investigations" page of the website CuevaDeLasManos.org states explicitly that George Musters, the first "white man" to travel the Pinturas River valley in 1881, was not lucky enough to discover the painted aleros (eaves?). The nomination of the cave for the status of World Heritage, prepared and submitted by Argentina, mentions de Agostini and 1941, but does not refer to Musters or 1881. I also found the following passage in a bilingual book:
 * George Musters reported the first news about the Pinturas River basin in 1881. He was an English traveler who accompanied a group of southern Tehuelches in a long journey that took him from Punta Arenas (Chile) to Carmen de Patagones (Argentina) . After that, in 1904, Clemente Onelli, a scientist working for the Argentine government in the International Boundaries Commission, mentioned the Pintura Valley, where "natives, once every two or three years, go in search of red earth, which is afterwards mixed with ostrich grease to make the pastels used to paint drawings on the furs they use". [...] Scientific interest in Cueva de las Manos was expressed in 1941 with the first references to the cave made by Father Alberto M. de Agostini, who indefatigably explored and traveled the Patagonia.
 * (I could not discern page numbers in the preview.) --Lambiam 09:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, so Musters never actually saw the site in 1881, making it de Agostini who first rediscovered the cave. Thank you :) Tyrone Madera (talk) 18:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia edit counts
Seems to me there's a way to find out a user's total edit counts by article. Trouble is, I don't recall how to do it and am having trouble finding it. Does anyone know? Thank you! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:24, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * If you go to a user's contributions page, at the bottom there is link to edit count, like this: . About halfway down the page there is edit count by article, talk page, etc.  RudolfRed (talk) 22:09, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * D'oh! That was exactly it. Thank you! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:42, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


 * There was a tool for counting the edits by editor for a single article. Is that still around? Clarityfiend (talk) 00:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. On the history page for an article there is a link to find edits by a user to that article and also a link to page statistics which has some info on edit counts for contributors to that article.   RudolfRed (talk) 00:08, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The page statistics link seems to be what Clarityfiend is looking for. There's also a tool called Who Wrote What? which enables you to click on some text in any article and it tells you who added it. --Viennese Waltz 08:15, 18 May 2021 (UTC)