Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2022 December 23

= December 23 =

Receiving Envelope
I recently received an envelope from the Arthritis Foundation c/o Fulfillment Warehouse 100 Jamison Court Hagerstown, MD 21740, and there was nothing inside! What was this suppose to be? My name (Redacted). 216.170.150.229 (talk) 00:25, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * We don’t need to know that information, and we suggest you contact the sender to find out why they sent you something. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * A 'Fulfillment' operation is one that addresses, fills (appropriately) and posts envelopes (etc.) on behalf of their parent company (if they're an internal department) and/or various client companies, usually on an industrial scale. Like any industrial operation, sometimes mistakes happen. Evidently the Arthritis Foundation wanted to send you (and probably a million other people on a mailing list) something – probably a donation request – but the machinery failed to put the document(s) into the envelope addressed to you. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.235 (talk) 05:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * What was supposed to be in that envelope was an appeal for funds to enable them to send out more envelopes. Shantavira|feed me 12:43, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Shantavira Well, it seems they are sending out envelopes just fine... David10244 (talk) 13:19, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Hooded raincoats and cold weather clothing as substitute for hazmat suits
I wonder if cold weather clothing or raincoats (especially with a hood) could provide same amount of protection from dangerous substances (not just cold weather or the rain) as actual hazmat suits when paired with something like SCBAs. If so, is it appropriate to wear such type of thing I mentioned before when there is PPE shortage? And which different materials provides the best protection against chemicals? 2001:448A:3047:13E4:11FC:BB2B:C9B3:F4EE (talk) 11:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Since your life may depend on a proper answer, we are not qualified to reply directly. Suggesting appropriate sources is the best that this reference desk can do, (e.g. here).  136.56.52.157 (talk) 14:53, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No. Hazmat suits are designed for a purpose that raincoats are not. As for chemicals, you would need to specify which chemicals. Everything is made of chemicals. Shantavira|feed me 09:16, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * For the dangerous chemicals, I mean the corrosive substances, which depending how corrosive it is regardless of being either two extreme pH levels (both sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide are corrosive, the latter of which are bases) can injure or even kill you if you're not careful, and also toxic gases like carbon monoxide and hydrogen sulfide. And due to the fact wearing a hazmat suit can increase the body temperature, therefore it can be used as a cold weather clothing. 2001:448A:3047:13E4:747F:CB26:3974:7FB1 (talk) 21:08, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm reminded of the Soviet submarine K-19, where naval engineers where given chemical hazard suits to work on a radiation leak. They died. You need specific PPE for a specific job. We have laws to that effect in the UK. Alansplodge (talk) 12:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Although wrong type of PPE can still work, but it won't be effective (or even completely ineffective) as correct ones, therefore it is not a fast and hard rule, so it means that you can use oilskin raincoats with a hood, cold weather clothing or even other types of hoodies, and combine with a gas mask right? Especially with COVID-19, airborne infections, and chemicals in gas forms like carbon monoxide or aerosol forms like tear gases. 2001:448A:3047:13E4:747F:CB26:3974:7FB1 (talk) 21:55, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * In a modern peace-time setting, if you expect your employees to improvise like that, you'll end up in court. In an emergency, it might be better than nothing. In the Second World War, British troops were issued with a "gas cape" which was basically a rubberised-canvas groundsheet, worn over the shoulders and intended to stop mustard gas droplets from seeping into their woollen uniforms. Nowadays, we have NBC suits. Alansplodge (talk) 11:27, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Now I know it can be used in emergency cases (so it means I'm going to take action against vandalism and/or disruptive editing on inactive Miraheze wikis when there's no active admins for long time right?), but why you would end up in court if you expect employees to improvise hooded clothing to turn into PPE in case of short supply of PPEs? 2001:448A:3047:13E4:747F:CB26:3974:7FB1 (talk) 12:00, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (other developed nations have similar legislation). Alansplodge (talk) 12:18, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Relevant sections of this for why you ended up in court when you expect employees to repurpose raincoats and/or extreme cold weather clothing to turn into a personal protective equipment in the case of emergency? 2001:448A:3042:21BC:F1F3:98E0:A622:8E04 (talk) 03:56, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my mistake; it's a statutory instrument derived from that act: The Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations 1992, which says:
 * Regulation 4 - Every employer shall ensure that suitable personal protective equipment is provided to his employees who may be exposed to a risk to their health or safety while at work except where and to the extent that such risk has been adequately controlled by other means which are equally or more effective.
 * It might be up to a judge to decide if a raincoat was "suitable" PPE, but then I'm not a lawyer and we shouldn't be giving legal advice here. Alansplodge (talk) 13:47, 29 December 2022 (UTC)