Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2022 November 21

= November 21 =

Pug nose
I'm trying to find a picture (photo or illustration is fine) of a pug nose as seen on humans. All the images I've found by web search are of dogs. I did manage to find some verbal descriptions of the human kind, but a pic would be helpful. Is a pug nose on a human female usually considered ugly? It came up in a book I'm reading, thus the picture hunt. Any suggestions? Thanks. 2601:648:8200:990:0:0:0:4775 (talk) 02:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Just do an image search for "person with pug nose". --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 05:00, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I had looked for human with pug nose and got only dogs.  Person with pug nose found mostly dogs but did find some humans, which helped.  The person in this one looks perfectly fine imho. 2601:648:8200:990:0:0:0:4775 (talk) 06:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Do that search recommended by Jpgordon WITH the quote marks. It makes a difference. HiLo48 (talk) 06:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Or try searching for "turned-up nose" or "button nose" which are more usually used for humans; pug being a type of dog, it would be a bit rude to apply the name to a person. Alansplodge (talk) 13:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Rude? Not really: in the original meaning relevant to the dog (says the OED), the word dates back to (at least) the 16th century and was a term of endearment, applied to a person, doll, or other valued 'bauble': it was applied to the dogs (as 'pug-dog') because they were a miniature breed, had an affectionate nature, and made good pets. Other, probably unconnected dialectical meanings included a name applied to various small animals, including monkeys (which have flat-nosed faces), and a reference to something (or someone) 'short and stumpy, a dwarf', all of which may have been concatenated and from which the specific term 'pug-nose(d)' may have emerged. In short, it has been applied to these short-nosed dogs, but does not derive from them.
 * One wonders what the dog breed's original name and meaning in China was/is. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.217.47.60 (talk) 02:33, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The page for pug on the Chinese Wikipedia is 巴哥犬 (pinyin bāgēquǎn). The last character is a generic Mandarin term for "dog" mainly used in compounds, and according to Wiktionary one can also simply use 巴哥 (bāgē). However, this is a borrowing of English pug, so it cannot be the traditional name. The Chinese Wikipedia gives 哈巴狗 (hǎbagǒu or hàbagǒu) as a former name, which according to Wiktionary can mean "pug" but also "Pekingese". The last character is another generic term for "dog", and the first two mean "to walk with crooked legs". As before, one can just use 哈巴 (hǎba or hàba) to refer to a pug. However, there is a theory that this term is actually a borrowing from a Mongolian word khaba meaning "pug" (possibly ultimately of onomatopoeic origin), and that the verb sense is derived from that, as if in English we'd say of someone who walks with crooked legs that they tend "to pug". --Lambiam 09:25, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Thank you, . {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.217.47.60 (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Regardless of the interesting etymology, searching "turned-up nose" results in a whole lot more images of human noses, which is what the OP was seeking. Alansplodge (talk) 12:55, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

World Cup matches officiated by women
Is it known which World Cup matches will be officiated by Stéphanie Frappart, Salima Mukansanga and Yoshimi Yamashita? Neither 2022 FIFA World Cup nor 2022 FIFA World Cup officials seem to clarify that. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 21:20, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Many sports competitions and leagues do not like to publicly announce who is going to officiate specific games that far in advance, for protection and security reasons. I'm assuming FIFA is probably one of these competitions. It's one thing to publicly announce the entire set of 36 referees, 69 assistant referees and 24 video match officials. But it would be quite another matter to give weeks advance notice that this specific referee is going to officiate this specific game between Team X and Team Y. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:58, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Indeed. And for matches after the first round, assignments are decided just before the matches, as these are based on performance in first-round matches as well as geographic considerations. I see that the fourth official in the just completed Poland/Mexico match was Frappart. Xuxl (talk) 18:57, 22 November 2022 (UTC)