Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2022 September 23

= September 23 =

Color soccer goal nets
Today they must be strictly white, but why could they once be other colors, for example, black or red? Thank you very much. 93.41.98.74 (talk) 08:52, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I can buy colored soccer goal nets right now if I wanted to. Your supposition that they only exist in white today is thus incorrect.  -- Jayron 32 11:48, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Earlier this week I watched highlights of a Norwich City F.C. home game, and noticed the that the goal nets were yellow and green (the club's colours since 1908).
 * It is possible that some local Football authorities stipulate white-only nets, perhaps only in certain leagues (though I cannot find actual instances of this). Might this be the case for the Italian Football Federation? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.227.236 (talk) 12:17, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The FIFA Rules of the Game can be found here: . The rules pertaining to the goals are on page 21. It is specified that that goal posts must be white, but there is nothing about the color of the net. Xuxl (talk) 14:47, 23 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Apparently Liverpool FC used red nets (their team colour), until manager Jurgen Klopp asked for them to be changed to white, as they didn't stand out against the stands filled with red-clad supporters.   Alansplodge (talk) 17:27, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Acceptance of umbrellas in England

 * The use of the umbrella or parasol (though not unknown) was uncommon in England during the earlier half of the eighteenth century...By 1788 however they seem to have been accepted: a London newspaper advertises the sale of 'improved and pocket Umbrellas, on steel frames, with every other kind of common Umbrella. But full acceptance is not complete even today with some considering umbrellas effete.

The last sentence was left unsourced in umbrella for eight years, so I removed it. But it got me thinking: was England truly culturally resistant to the adoption of the umbrella, and if so, what is the real reason for this kind of strange intransigence? Is it possible, for example, that the climate of the United Kingdom might not have been conducive to older umbrella technology, and had to wait until the mid-18th century for it to improve? Just throwing that out there as a hypothesis. Viriditas (talk) 21:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Umbrellas became a feminine accessory beginning in the 16th century in Europe. Jonas Hanway was the first male Londoner to carry an umbrella[citation needed] ...it was an Englishman - Jonas Hanway (1712-1786) - who made the umbrella as we know it today popular.  136.56.52.157 (talk) 21:24, 23 September 2022 (UTC)


 * See also Real Men Don't Carry Umbrellas: From Wellington to Obama, which quotes the Duke of Wellington:
 * Lord Wellington does not approve of the use of umbrellas during the enemy's firing, and will not allow the 'gentlemen's sons' to make themselves ridiculous in the eyes of the army,
 * Alansplodge (talk) 17:17, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Major, The Hon. John Wickham Gascoyne Beresford Steed would beg to differ. 136.56.52.157 (talk) 18:52, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the informative link. Quite a rabbit hole there.  How have I gone through so many years of my life never knowing that the umbrella was and is still considered a gendered item (not my words, but the linked source)?  This rabbit hole apparently goes even deeper: "Although the British wised up, the Yanks never did – at least, the US Army and Marine Corps didn't. Current regulations still forbid soldiers to do certain things while in uniform. Among them are pushing a pram and carrying an umbrella. But Army and Marine Corps personnel can carry umbrellas – if they're female. The umbrella remains gendered, at least in these services." This can’t be real, can it? Viriditas (talk) 21:06, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
 * ObPersonal. In the UK there was until the last couple of decades (by my estimation) a gender distinction by colour. Men traditionally tended to use only plain black umbrellas, usually long, or latterly the shorter folding variety. Women most often used non-black and patterned umbrellas, smaller/shorter than men's, and folding when these became widely available (long after their invention). This did not apply to special circumstances, such as on the golf course where larger-than-street-size golf umbrellas were always coloured, often in alternating panels. Beach umbrellas, being primarily for family holiday use, were both necessarily large (for function) and always coloured. I wonder if there is a Sociology PhD thesis in all this :-)? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.227.236 (talk) 17:31, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * So, in the old days, did men on their way to work get soaked, and work all day in that condition? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? The post to which you are replying doesn't say anything about men not using umbrellas at all. To the previous poster: it seems to me that this gender distinction still exists. Men still only use plain black umbrellas. --Viennese Waltz 18:38, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you know the answer to my question? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:29, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The United Kingdom is a country of infinite inventiveness, and as an alternative to effiminate umbrellas, a Scottish chemist called Charles Macintosh devised the Mackintosh (not to be confused with la capote anglaise). A developed form is the Aquascutum. This shows the benefit of teaching Latin at school, on the off-chance that you invent a new type of raincoat and are too modest to name it after yourself. Alansplodge (talk) 21:03, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, as in "...And the banker never wears a Mac in the pouring rain..." The mac (or mack?) is from the early 1800s. Presumably a hat is part of the protection. But what did they do before that? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:57, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I know less than nothing, but I always assumed they used capes and cloaks. In Asia, conical hats perform wonderfully in the rain, and it's always mystified me that they never took off in wet European countries--I'm guessing it's due to the cultural baggage of European superstition ("Classical pointed hats are worn by the dwarfs, witches and wizards of European Folklore.")  Humanity seems to constantly undermine its development with nonsensical beliefs (gendered rain gear?), a consistent theme in this discussion.  I am gobsmacked to learn here that a US soldier is forbidden to push a baby stroller while in uniform by government regulation.  Allowing it would actually create a tighter bond between the community and the armed forces, and would increase the cohesion between the people and the military, and likely lead to greater enlistment.  And showing a soldier carrying an umbrella to protect others would likely do the same. Viriditas (talk) 22:33, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * See greatcoat, which would soak-up rain rather than repel it, but at least you stayed warm. Alansplodge (talk) 18:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)