Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2023 April 19

= April 19 =

Add picture of Qamar House
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d1tp-g_jPqVyN_4TAq4Cg5BQ Iqbalqamar (talk) 00:24, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Courtesy link: Qamar House. A photograph of which this is a clipping can be found here. I cannot figure out from the information provided whether this image is in the public domain. --Lambiam 06:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * EFU 1.jpg is a free image on Wikimedia Commons. You can add it yourself. If you happen to be in Karachi, you can take some pictures from a better angle and upload them to the Commons. --Lambiam 07:17, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

high end fixtures and hanger racks in san francisco where to buy
Where can I buy a high end fixture or hanger rack for clothes online or in specifically the San Francisco Bay Area whom sells them? 12.203.100.92 (talk) 01:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * If IKEA is "high end", there are IKEA stores in Emeryville and East Palo Alto. You can probably find such stuff online at Amazon.com and if you hurry at BedBathAndBeyond.com. --Lambiam 06:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)


 * It would be for commerial use like what you would find at a store not the ones for home use and she wants a physical store if at all possible, maybe some sort of wholesaler? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.203.100.87 (talk) 19:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Home Depot sells garment racks that look to me like those you find in clothing stores, such as this one. --Lambiam 21:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Evolution of length of copulation time
All joking aside, in the Chimpanzee article it says: "Copulation is brief, lasting approximately seven seconds". How and why did human copulation evolve to longer and longer lengths of time for adults? Viriditas (talk) 09:01, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It does? -- Jayron 32 13:09, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * In all seriousness, there's an incorrect premise in your question. Humans did not evolve from Chimpanzees, Chimpanzees and Humans evolved from a common ancestor which was a species that lived somewhere between 13 million and 4 million years ago (speciation is a process, not an instant, and there are rather large error bars on the data we do have).  Unless we know the copulation habits of that common ancestor, we don't know if human copulation time got longer, or if Chimpanzee copulation time got shorter, or if both happened.  -- Jayron 32 13:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the pedantry, but I’m aware that humans evolved from a common ancestor, not from chimps, which is why I asked about the evolution of human copulation, particularly in adults. Looking into this, it turns out that the average time of human copulation has been measured at five minutes, while orangutans can go for fifteen minutes on average. What explains the large differences in copulation time between the three great ape species? Viriditas (talk) 16:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if it's linked to social group size. the three orangutan species are basically solitary, chimpanzees (and bobobos) tend to live in groups of a few dozen, while humans (sapiens, neanderthalensis, etc) seem ancestrally to have lived in extended families smaller than typical chimpanzee troops.
 * Environment may also be/have been a factor. Orangutans mate up trees in forests, and are unlikely to be disturbed while so doing. Chimpanzees typically mate on the ground (I believe) and may be disturbed by predators, or by other chimps. Ancestral humans may have typically mated in caves (yeah, cliché) and/or other semi-safe situations, with others on watch for predators, and being more social and intelligent likely interrupted each other less.
 * Lastly: chimpanzee females exhibit obvious signs of oestrus; humans less so if at all, but females could indicate their willingness to mate in other ways; orangutans do not have obvious oestrus signals, and forced copulation is quite frequent. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.18.208 (talk) 16:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's been years since I read David Buss and Christopher Ryan. Your speculation seems to lean towards elements of both. Viriditas (talk) 08:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Conceivably, our hominid ancestors spent a longer time on procreation, which got shorter progressively on all hominine branches, more so on some than on others. --Lambiam 07:30, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Bonobos split from Pan paniscus two million years ago, yet copulate longer than common chimps by almost twice as much time (13 seconds). Viriditas (talk) 08:11, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The use of the conjunction yet implies that the second clause stands in contrast with the first clause, but I cannot discern how. Perhaps their common ancestor spent a full minute on the act. Two million years is enough time for evolution to progress towards quicker completion. Reportedly, there is also a difference between the species in the appetite they have developed for it. --Lambiam 18:54, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * But it looks like copulation increased in length over time, not decreased. Some of this has been addressed above.  If a species is more vulnerable to predators, they have sex quicker.  Over time, humans became less vulnerable to predators due to their adaptation and control over the natural  environment.  We would therefore expect copulation to increase as their safety increased over time.  On another site discussion, it was pointed out that longer copulation has a selective advantage because it increases the chance of fertilization and delays the success of the chance of a second mate.  I’m inclined to believe that human copulation grew longer for these reasons, not shorter. Viriditas (talk) 02:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If there are specific indications that make it look like that, I must have overlooked them. Our common hominid ancestors may have been frugivorous tree dwellers too large for birds of prey but nevertheless relatively small, hanging out on branches too flexible for big cats too climb and thereby hardly vulnerable to predators. One can ask, "why is it the case that X?" and come up with one or more theories. But these theories, however plausible, cannot settle the answer to the question, "is it the case that X?". --Lambiam 07:33, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Various editors can speculate at length but nobody can go back millions of years with a stopwatch to determine the copulation time of our various Hominidae ancestors, direct or indirect cousin species. And nobody knows how long it took on average for our ancestors even 20,000 years ago, which is an exceptionally brief time in evolutionary terms. Modern scientific observations show that there are wide variations in the time. Couples with little privacy or knowledge of the possibilities may finish quite promptly. Couples with a higher degree of privacy and better knowledge of human sexuality may learn to take more time to stretch out the pleasure. Cullen328 (talk) 08:23, 23 April 2023 (UTC)