Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2023 January 4

= January 4 =

Wild Fallow Deer in Maryland?
This may be a stretch but I'm gonna try anyways, I heard about fallow deer in Maryland from Maryland's DNR website and old forums. I'm not a very good googler and so far all I've found online were two photos of what appears to be fallow claiming these were taken in the Upper Marlboro area in Prince George county and 2021-2022 Maryland Annual Big Game Report stating the biggest fallow deer killed were in either Talbot or  Prince George. This is all old information though and I don't know how relevant it is today. Some forums suggest that they were found in other counties and certain areas but this is all old unverified information. I find them interesting and was wondering where I could find wild populations if still around in the state of Maryland. I'm just looking for wild fallow deer in Maryland not in zoos or in their native ranges. 73.180.137.179 (talk) 03:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article European fallow deer notes, without citation, that there are some captive herds of fallow deer kept as livestock in Pennsylvania, and that there are a non-zero number of escapees from these places. It is possible such deer may find their way to Maryland given the proximity of the two states.  It is unlikely that there are wild breeding populations of fallow deer anywhere in the area, however.  There are a small number of feral populations noted in places like Georgia and Kentucky, and some captive populations kept on game preserves in Texas.  -- Jayron 32 11:54, 4 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Not at all recent, but Mammals of Maryland (1969) p. 169 from the US Bureau of Sport Fisheries and Wildlife says:
 * In addition to Sika deer, Maryland supports small populations of introduced fallow deer (Dama dama). Presnall (1958, p. 48) says that a few animals remain from introductions in Worcester County (Mills Island in Chincoteague Bay) between 1920 and 1930, and in Talbot County between 1935 and 1945. Alansplodge (talk) 16:33, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 2021-2022 Maryland Annual Big Game Report page 45 I wonder how they got to Prince George county. Fallow deer Maryland winter and Fallow deer Maryland summer 73.180.137.179 (talk) 03:08, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Presumably they walked. I can't imagine they took the Metro; they don't have pockets to hold the fare card... -- Jayron 32 05:00, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Mills Island is an island. Even if the deer swam to the mainland (not impossible, about 500 m), they'd either need to walk first up to Newark, Delaware, and then down, through densely populated areas like Baltimore, to Upper Marlboro, all together some 400 km, or else traverse the 7 km long William Preston Lane Jr. Memorial Bay Bridge. It seems more likely these populations were established independently. --Lambiam 23:18, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Unless the walked from the already documented areas in Pennsylvania already noted above, a fairly trivial thing given that Maryland shares a long land border with Pennsylvania which crosses many miles of essentially wilderness. -- Jayron 32 12:15, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * their best route in terms of minimal human interaction would be to stay in the Maryland Eastern Shore and the cross the Elk River downstream of Elkton and then the Susquehanna just downstream of where US-1 crosses, then stay pretty close to the PA border until you get to Patapsco, follow that to the Liberty Reservoir and then SSW to the Patuxent which will take you right into Upper Marlboro.Naraht (talk) 14:43, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The Susquehanna is not that crossable in Maryland. It's a wide and deep tidal river, really almost an arm of the Chesapeake Bay at that point, and it is unlikely they would have swum across it.  There are only 5 crossings (US 1, US 40, I-95, and two rail bridges).  It's possible, I suppose, that a herd managed to wander, unnoticed, across one of these mile-long bridges, but it is far more likely that they wandered not from the Eastern Shore, but from populations in, say, Pennsylvania, where they wouldn't have had as much geographic barriers.  The US 1 crossing is a slightly better possibility; it's the Conowingo Dam rather than a bridge, and downstream may be narrow enough to cross, though I don't know what the depth and/or currents are like for the dam outflow.  It might be too brutal of a current for the deer to have crossed safely.  -- Jayron 32 15:36, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that Rowland Island just below the dam would be useful in shortening each swim, but the island cluster that includes Robert Island just north of Port Deposit might be better. But if those don't work, then I agree, it would be easier for them coming in from Pennsylvania. I do wonder 300 years ago at what point the river stops being tidal.Naraht (talk) 15:56, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, the river flow was drastically changed with the damming of the river at Conowingo (see above for link); above that point is a narrow reservoir and below that it was a fairly deep tidal river; in the early country several (for the time) major port cities were founded along its banks, because ocean-going vessels could reach them, including Havre de Grace, Port Deposit, and Perryville, Maryland. I believe Port Deposit was the furthest upriver that ships could reach.  -- Jayron 32 18:22, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * seems more likely there would have been another introduction in Prince George to me 73.180.137.179 (talk) 18:46, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Could be that too. -- Jayron 32 11:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Early hours - 11am & 12pm
In the Father Ted episode Entertaining Father Stone, Ted said he has to be up at 11:00 in the morning, even when going to bed at 7:30 in the evening. In Rock a Hula Ted, Ted said he wanted to get up early in the morning for the Lovely Girls competition, even though Dougal said it was only 11:00. And in Chirpy Burpy Cheap Sheep, Mrs Doyle told Ted he was up early this morning, only Dougal said it was nearly Midday. How are 11am & 12pm considered early hours? Is it because they don't get up until sometime in the afternoon or what? 86.130.114.204 (talk) 20:26, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Does this subject come up in other episodes? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:53, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The show deliberately contradicts logical expectations: making viewers say "Wait– what?" is a major part of its style of humour. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.235 (talk) 00:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That is the joke. I don't know how to explain this elsewise; Ted is claiming that 11am is "early in the morning", a silly thing to say given that it is actually quite late.  You're supposed to laugh at that because its silly.  There's nothing else to explain.  -- Jayron 32 04:58, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In The Passion of Saint Tibulus, Ted and Dougal were still in their beds at 6:00 in the morning and thought they'd have another 8 hours sleep (until Bishop Brennan burst in and told them to continue thier protest, even though the cinema would not open in 7 hours). Not getting up until 2:00 in the afternoon? 86.130.26.236 (talk) 20:42, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * See Absurd humour and Comedic effect. --Lambiam 19:53, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In the first example, Ted is trying to avoid spending time with the excruciatingly boring Father Stone, so claims to be going to bed early and getting up late to help with this. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 19:21, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The joke is that priests have nothing to do compared to normal people, so lying-in is normal for them. DuncanHill (talk) 12:28, 7 January 2023 (UTC)