Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2023 September 18

= September 18 =

Shana tova
What exactly is the difference between kosher and non-kosher wine? In other words, what specific additives can cause wine to cease to be kosher? (I presume that grapes and freshly-pressed grape juice are always kosher by definition, since only animal products can be non-kosher -- is that correct?) 2601:646:9882:46E0:241C:9D9C:5521:C142 (talk) 21:40, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * See kosher wine. Chitosan in particular is a common fining used to remove yeast remains and plant particulate matter from wine, and is made from shellfish. 85.76.21.190 (talk) 00:37, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The parenthetical remark is apparently not correct. Kosher.com says "Grapes themselves have no special kosher considerations, but wine, grape juice, and other grape products are some of the most highly kosher-sensitive. All grape juice, grape wines or brandies must be prepared under strict Orthodox rabbinic supervision and may not be handled by non-Jews. However, once a kosher wine has been cooked, no restrictions are attached to its handling. Such products are generally labeled 'mevushal' (cooked)."  If there's an explanation there as to why grape juice specifically loses its kashrut if handled by non-Jews, I didn't find it. --Trovatore (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Has to do with ensuring that the wine hasn't been associated with idolatrous offerings. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 01:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! So, addition of chitosan or handling by non-Jews could cause it to lose kosher status -- anything else?  (BTW, I totally forgot about that second point -- I was focusing on possible non-kosher additives, but I forgot that the workforce also has to be kosher in order for the product to be kosher!) 2601:646:9882:46E0:7137:977A:132E:9612 (talk) 02:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Do kosher rules regarding grape juice take into account machine harvesting of grapes? In that rather non-selective process, it's inevitable that things other than grapes end up in the mix. This can include birds' nests and their contents, small animals or reptiles living among the vines, and insects. HiLo48 (talk) 00:21, 20 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Brilliant question. I've been involved in grape harvesting in the early 90s and it was entirely manual. If there was a strong suspicion that animals/insects were caught up in a machine harvested crop, and that there were not sufficient safeguards for removing them, the product would definitely not be kosher. Commercial kashrut usually includes inspection by independent people who would, one would hope, pick up on such things. Even if societal civil laws / health and safety didn't. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 16:14, 22 September 2023 (UTC)