Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2023 September 2

= September 2 =

Name these two types of clouds
Please help me narrow the general meteorological terms for these kinds of clouds in art:


 * Example A: Depiction of flat white cloud, likely seen above 30,000 feet (9000 meters) by plane.
 * Example B: Depiction of cloudlets, likely seen above 30,000 feet (9000 meters) by plane.

Thank you for your help in this urgent matter. Viriditas (talk) 01:53, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The article List of cloud types may be a jumping-off point, but I'd imagine you've already seen that.
 * For A I would tentatively suggest Altostratus or perhaps Cirrostratus.
 * For B, perhaps Cirrocumulus.
 * However, clouds come in many variations of types and species, some quite rare, so someone with expert knowledge is needed here, such as a meteorologist or an airline pilot. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.81.165 (talk) 03:21, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with B, but still uncertain about A. Viriditas (talk) 03:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It's a piece of art and not realistic enough to identify the type of clouds. A has a completely featureless top. That indicates it's some kind of stratus, but it's impossible to say which. B has small blobs, indicating it's some kind of cumulus, but again impossible to say which. PiusImpavidus (talk) 20:25, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * B is answered here. They are called horizontal convective rolls, or "cloud streets". We get them here in Hawaii.  Update: it turns out that Theodore von Kármán, one of the engineers who studied the fluid dynamics involved in a type of cloud street (Kármán vortex street), re-discovered it (it had been studied by others in the past) when he saw it in a 14th century painting that depicts vortices in the water.  Perhaps you will think of that the next time you dismiss a "piece of art". Viriditas (talk) 10:47, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Some pieces of art are realistic. These are not (they don't have to). Look at the distribution of the vertical extend of the clouds in B (as projected on the plane of the painting) and of the blue gaps inbetween. No way this could happen in reality. Successive rolls of clouds don't obscure each other in the distance, so they must be completely flat, all in a flat horizontal plane. This plane curves down closer to the observer. Closer to the observer, the clouds also get shorter, if you properly read the perspective. This artist has abstracted the clouds to the point that they only keep the essence of cumulus clouds (in B) or stratus clouds (in A), but lost the properties that could narrow it down to a specific subtype. PiusImpavidus (talk) 18:13, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You're free to believe that as much as you like, but the history of art and science says otherwise, and is at odds with your assessment. Researchers have examined abstract cliff paintings, only to determine that they may represent specific astronomical phenomena such as Halley's Comet and supernova SN 1054. In California, abstract rock art of the Chumash people is thought to represent a solar eclipse from November 24, 1677. The field of archaeoastronomy is full of hundreds of these examples.  We know that O'Keeffe was painting about specific types of clouds because she wrote about it, and many of her abstract depictions of clouds have representational connections with specific, known meteorological phenomena.  I myself have spent time photographing cloud formations, and many of the final, untouched images that I have captured do not look real, and could easily be confused as CGI, drawings, or abstract paintings.  This was also one of the points O'Keeffe's husband made when he did the same thing with cloud photography in the 1930s.  I think you are a bit too hasty in your Platonic dismissal of the knowledge contained with the arts. O'Keeffe saw what appeared as otherworldly and entirely unrealistic from her airplane window.  Her abstraction of this image was not lost on people as much as you say it was.  I have also seen for myself what this painting depicts from an airplane, and I am able to fully integrate the abstract qualities and to recognize it as something that actually exists ("cloud streets"). I think your answer says something about your own perceptual view of the world that prevents you from doing this, rather than something objective and true about the relationship between art and reality. Viriditas (talk) 00:47, 4 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Also remember that while humans love to categorize things into separate 'types' and give them labels, Nature often works in continua, so sometimes a thing (such as a cloud formation) may be two things, or neither, or a hybrid, or a thing we haven't labelled yet. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.81.165 (talk) 09:13, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Doing a Ratner
A Jewish fruiterer in Stamford Hill trades under the name "Rottenberg fruit shop" (which appears on till receipts although there is no name over the door). Many years ago in Oxford there was a luxury car hire firm named "Crappers". Are there any other similarly unfortunately named businesses? 2A02:C7B:124:3D00:2B8D:308D:B18C:5BD8 (talk) 11:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * 'Doing a Ratner'. Hey, I forgot about that bloke. Classic! :D    SN54129  11:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * For the puzzled, Gerald Ratner ran a nationwide chain of high street jewellers, which almost went to the wall after he told a conference of company directors that his success was due to selling items that were "total crap". In the aftermath he was sacked; the company had to close 300 shops and rebrand itself. His name is now a byword in the UK for destroying your own business with bad publicity. Alansplodge (talk) 11:59, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I found 50 Unfortunate Business Names That Are Also Brilliant. Alansplodge (talk) 12:00, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Motorcycle license, yellow, character 玉
Hi,

What country could this be located in? I was thinking mainland China as the vehicles drive on the right in the footage and store signs looked like simplified Chinese, but I was unsure. 50.101.173.184 (talk) 11:32, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you have the title of the film? 2A02:C7B:124:3D00:2B8D:308D:B18C:5BD8 (talk) 11:48, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Which film? --Lambiam 14:42, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Presumably the film in which the OP saw "the footage". -- 136.54.106.120 (talk) 17:04, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * None of the provinces of mainland China use the graph 玉 as an identifier on license plates. Folly Mox (talk) 18:25, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * If it's relevant, that character appears (though not alone) in the article Vehicle registration plates of Japan, in the table in section Vehicle registration plates of Japan, in the 'Former markings' column of the entry for 'Saitama, Saitama, Ōmiya'. Of course, traffic in Japan drives on the right left – could it be a Japanese-registered vehicle driving in China? Is the OP certain that the footage was not flipped l-r? [Edited to add: Probably, because – as Lambiam points out below – then the character would also be flipped.] How old is the footage? What colour were the other characters and the background of the plate? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.81.165 (talk) 04:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you meant to write that traffic in Japan drives on the left. If the footage is flipped, the character will appear as . --Lambiam 09:20, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You are quite right, . I've corrected the former and annotated the latter of my goofs. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.81.165 (talk) 18:45, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Wow, I didn't know you could do that. Something to remember next time I mention ABA. —Tamfang (talk) 20:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Could it be Taiwan? --Lambiam 09:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * According to Vehicle registration plates of Taiwan, a few special types include Chinese characters, but the one in question does not appear in the article. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.81.165 (talk) 18:45, 3 September 2023 (UTC)