Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2024 April 4

= April 4 =

Map identifying Cities
Is there an option in Google or Bing (or other) online map to make it identify populated urban cities and not label every little township or census identified location? I am looking for cities, not tiny towns or farms or a crossroads with a gas station, that are above the artic circle. I found Tromso in Norway as a city. But, zooming in on every little dot to see if it has a population density high enough that most people would call it a city is taking a long time. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 13:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If you zoom out, doesn't that give you just the cities? --Viennese Waltz 14:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * No. It isn't based on size or population density. When I zoom in to the point that Tromso, one of the largest cities in northern Norway, shows up, I see a few dozen "cities" that I feel are stretching it to call it a "town" or "village." 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Define "city". No, really, define what you are asking. Different places have different definitions. Where I live (North Carolina) the only legal difference between cities, towns, and villages is the word itself. Do these programs have a way of searching by population or population density? -- User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:06, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I do not believe that this question requires a hardline definition of "city." Consider some labels that come up before Tromso when zooming in or Norway. Alta has 5.6 people per square km compared to Tromso's 31.84, which increases to over 3,000 in the main city. Olderfjord has 0.8 people. Consider roads. Alta exists as a hospital along the costal route. Olderfjord is a gas station and campground. There is no definition of "city" which would claim Alta or Olderfjord are cities. There is no need for a hard definition of city. The question is asking if there is any map that places importance on cities, showing them, before showing seemingly random place names that are clearly not cities. Both Google Maps and Bing Maps try to populate the map with random place names, often to the point of hiding much larger and more prominant cities. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 13:36, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You can't distinguish between cities and not-cities without defining city. -- User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:26, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I claim that you CAN do that. Is London, England a city? Anyone who claims it is not is simply being a jerk. Is New York City, United States a city? Again, only a jerk would say it isn't. Is Beijing, China a city? Once again, only a jerk would say it isn't. Is the South pole a city? Nobody lives there. Only a jerk would say it might me. Is Devon Island a city? Again, only a jerk would claim it might be. Is the Sea of Tranquility on the Moon a city? It would take a massive jerk to argue that it is. Yet, we can make those distinctions without defining the cutoff between "city" and "not a city." Within the context of this question, Google and Bing maps are showing labels for uninhabited and sparsly inhabited locations while hiding labels for densly populated locations with dense multi-floor buildings and tight roadways. What kind of person would say that we can't even begin to discuss the issue without making a scientific definition of the fine distinction between "city" and "not a city"? 75.136.148.8 (talk) 15:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * err, are you talking about the City of London or about Greater London? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * And you just casually changed from trying to distinguish between settlements that are or are not cities and distinguishing between cities and uninhabited places. My answer was relevant to your original question you asked, not to the straw man you have switched to. You can't distiguish between settled areas that are or are not cities without giving a defiition or set of criteria to be a city.-- User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 21:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "There is no definition of "city" which would claim Alta or Olderfjord are cities." Our article on Alta lists it as having 15,000 people. That and the photos in the article show that it is much more than "a hospital along the coastal route" as you described it. There are many cities in my state that have ~15,000 people and look a lot like those pictures. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:43, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The population density of the municipality seems irrelevant to me. Alta (town) has 15000 people on 8 km2. In a somewhat sparsely populated country, that could be considered a town. The concept of land that isn't part of a municipality is rare to non-existent in Europe, so the low population density of the municipality only indicates that the next town is far away.
 * English may make a threefold distinction between city, town and village (although it may not always have legal significance), but other languages may do this differently. These maps are automatically generated from government databases. What's not in the database, can't be used to generate the map and the database may not classify settlements as village or city when there's no legal difference.
 * Interestingly, my home country, far more densely populated than Norway, shows a lower density of towns on Google Earth. It may have something to do with a difference in the way how countries prepare these databases. PiusImpavidus (talk) 20:39, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * These measures are inconsistent across countries and across the world. Soldier, Kansas is a city with an area of 0.15 square miles. Its population is 102. That makes its population density 680 people per square mile. HiLo48 (talk) 23:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Does the finding need to be done via a map? I'm just wondering if there's a database you could query to find all inhabited areas where the latitude is 66° 34' N or greater and where the population is greater than some number you decide to define city by. I assume Wikipedia itself could be queried in some way, though I have no idea how that could be done. Matt Deres (talk) 22:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Probably not as those products are administered by american companies and the USA has a very loose definition of what a city is. It's much easier to look at the articles here about Cities in XXX and check out the handy maps showing which population centres are defined as a city by that country and which are north of the circle. E.g. -> List of cities in Sweden, List of towns and cities in Norway and List of cities and towns in Finland. Nanonic (talk) 17:53, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * The "answer" on Wikiedpia's reference desk was basically: We won't answer you because we want to be pedantic about the definition of the word "city."
 * The answer on Reddit was: Try openstreetmap. It places labels based on population density while Google and Bing attempt to distribute labels evenly, disregarding population density.
 * So, I used openstreetmap and found exactly what I was looking for. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 12:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Openstreetmap appears quite random too, showing some smaller settlements whilst skipping larger settlements in the same area. It shows Vadsø in Finnmark well before Alta, although Alta is three times larger. PiusImpavidus (talk) 14:50, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

2016 electoral map
Hi. Is it possible to put this map on the 2016 presidential page? Many other past election pages have a map identical to this one. Thank you very much. https://gisgeography.com/us-election-2016-map/ 2.39.110.85 (talk) 21:43, 11 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Do you mean the article 2016 United States presidential election? This map  has been in the article since November 8, 2016. Is there a reason to find it less satisfactory than the GISGeography map?  --Lambiam 12:45, 12 April 2024 (UTC)


 * No no, the official one is perfectly fine, it's not like it has to be replaced. But some elections like the 2000 election, (and not only it), has both the official one obviously, and the one in question in my request. But never mind, my request itself can be ignored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.39.110.85 (talk) 13:32, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not an unreasonable suggestion, and there's no reason it can't be considered, but the best place to propose and discuss is on the Talk page of the article itself, Talk:2016 United States presidential election, with those most interested in the subject.
 * Go there, click as indicated to start a new topic, make the suggestion much as you have here, with links and supporting arguments, and see what others think. If consensus to add it is reached, you or another participant can do so. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 151.227.145.123 (talk) 15:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Embarrassing moments
Embarrassing moments may or may not involve scandal - for example the royal baccarat scandal and the Camillagate scandal. To observers they may simply be funny. Asked in The Times of 4 April 2024 What is the funniest thing that has happened in your job? "Lord Banner of Keating" ["Keating" is the name of his chambers, not part of his title] replied:

"When the inspector at a highly contentious public inquiry with 400-plus members of the public in attendance forgot to turn off his lapel mic when visiting the loo in the first break."

For me the accolade must go to the January 2016 Arbitration case involving Future Perfect at Sunrise and The Rambling Man:


 * 15 January 2016 - Future Perfect at Sunrise, in a statement to the Arbitration Committee, claims:

"...user's posting contained things like the claim I was blocked for 'illegal activities in public lavatories' or something to that effect (the same banned person has repeatedly called me a self-declared sex worker elsewhere)."


 * 16 January 2016 - IP files evidence:

"Wow. How convenient (excuse the pun) that there is nothing to back the respondent's claim that he was accused of illegal activity.   And can we have a diff for the allegation that he was accused of being a self-declared sex worker?"

The Rambling Man argues that Future Perfect at Sunrise should be put to proof of his claim ("Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"). Drmies (who was on the Arbitration Committee at the time) overrules him. The Rambling Man resigns his adminship in disgust.


 * 27 March 2024 - The matter is raised on The Rambling Man's talk page.  Drmies promptly disappears and doesn't surface for four days.   He has not been away so long since mid-July 2018.   On 3 July 2019 Drmies pings Zzuuzz to alert him that he is creating the page User talk:Li Hongzhi Having A Wa*k (no asterisks in original).   On 25 June 2020 he warns an editor for "Disruptive editing on List of sex symbols".   On the same day he is asked "Is it okay for you to put f*ck you in a block notice?" (no asterisks in original).   Seven minutes later he calls the editor an "asshole".   On 3 October he comments:  "I think plenty fans already hate me; they'd be much happier on Wikia."   On 21 May 2021 he tells a female Arbitrator she is a "Dude".   On 17 April 2022 she tells him she will be travelling.   He replies:  "Exciting!   Have you considered Mongolia?"   This is the day after he writes:  "To all administrators:  please don't bully a new editor."   Then on 23 April he comments:  "I love it when editors take Wikipedia and its policies seriously but are also able to show their humanity and a spirit of collaboration."   On 4 August he claims it takes 51 administrators and a steward to block one user and "protect our ideological bubble."   On 7 November he tells an editor "Please stop screwing around" and blocks her. - posted by 92.29.75.188 15:13, 12 April 2024

What is the funniest thing that editors here have encountered? 92.25.128.239 (talk) 10:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Responders at this reference desk volunteer their time to help you find information or references that you need, but are not here to exchange personal anecdotes. Philvoids (talk) 10:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)