Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2024 May 22

= May 22 =

Measurement units
Are there any recent books with not just contemporary human-scale units but many others all with conversions all listed in size order in sections named mass, acceleration, inverse length (several units like diopter are inverse length) etc (no wasting space blabbing for half the book instead of more kinds of units i.e. Meccan wine gallons and magnetic fluencivity). Maybe it could show multiple conversions per unit but one conversion per unit to either SI or one of the less obscure non-SI units would be sufficient. It'd be nice if the conversions had ~8-24 digits if unavoidable (some unit to different measurement system conversations could get an exact symbol with only a fqew digits (some without fractions or repeating decimal overlines like survey inch=(1/39.37) meters)). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I imagine such a book would struggle to find a publisher in the age of the internet. I did look through all the online unit converters on the first page of a DuckDuckGo search, and none of them cited any sources for their conversions, although several seemed very robust.I'm not sure how interested you are in premodern units (I'm unfamiliar with ), but if you're looking at premodern units you should keep in mind that how we think of them in the present is usually an approximation of what their original value was, even if the value was rigorously defined at some point instead of a "just about". The recent book (Matthew, 2023) devotes an entire chapter to figuring out the size of the unit used in the ancient experiment. Meanwhile I've at least twice had cause to cite  That article goes into significant depth about the changing value of different measurements of volume and where the historical sources allow us to estimate the measurements against each other and against modern units. Sometimes we get lucky and there's an extant prototype that allows us to measure premodern units exactly, but much of the time it takes research by subject matter experts laying out careful arguments INS blabbing half the book to arrive at a good estimate, and 8–24 digits is going to end up in the territory of false precision.Anyway it's likely that if you cite two online unit converters in your calculations no one will challenge the results. Folly Mox (talk) 08:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The subject of reference is Metrology that Wikipedia divides into sections each of which wastes space blabbing gives encyclopedia-worthy information, not least the essential historical evolution of units that overshadows any anachronistic conversion between ancient and modern units. The Metre is an example of a unit that has been redefined several times since it began in 1791 as Earth's circumference/40,000. Philvoids (talk) 12:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has articles for many units with conversion to metric and American, unit systems like SI or Ancient Egyptian with conversions to metric American and other units of the system the article's about, categories of units of the same type like area units, articles on quantities like area with less obscure units noted along with some cross-system conversions like hectare to or from acre. But not really like that book I saw. It probably didn't have every possible conversion factor but that means room for more units and you could derive any unit pair conversion factor from what's on the page anyway. I'm sure there's a massive multi-volume book covering all of metrology (including detailed care instructions for the one true kilogram and extremely dry statistical error propagationolgy) which I could use to find all the info in that book I saw (maybe requiring me to read the entire book and perform data entry just to get a table of every mentioned length unit and its size in SI ranked by size) but a book like that book I saw could be hundreds of US$ cheaper. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:54, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Right in some cases it might be less digits to avoid false precision, a range, ±, ~, c., a value written like 1.26(12), listed as Homeric stadion, Ptolemaic stadion etc or something like that. I don't know if Mecca ever had wine gallon(s) or barrel(s) (Britain had many obsolete local gallons and barrels). I don't know if magnetic fluencivity is real, there's so many jargony science quantities like fluence, abasement or absition (displacement times time), specific volume, jerk (physics) (acceleration squared), impulse (physics), specific impulse (not impulse), permittivity, permissivity, reactance, inductance, capacitance, acoustic resistance, acoustic impedance, electrical impedance, radiation resistance, magnetic flux, magnetic field strength, magnetic susceptibility and magnetic coercivity. I saw one such book long before the SI redefinition and remember international inch 25.4e or similar, U.S. survey inch maybe 9 significant digits/25.4000508 I stopped caring after 0005 to 000508 (my calculator could only fit 00051) so don't remember (1m/39.37 exactly but very or impossibly inconvenient to express exactly in the form cm per inch). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Anyone remember the name of the most recent such book? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Annual personal organizer diaries are usually padded with extra reference information such as maps and some common unit conversions such as degrees Celsius <-> Fahrenheit, metric <-> imperial units, etc. The most recent that will be for year 2025 are probably being printed now. Philvoids (talk) 17:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Did the position "Senior Secretary of Cadres for CPSU" Existed
Hello, I'm researching historical positions within the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) because Andrei Kirilenko (politician) page, he held a post called "Senior Secretary of Cadres." However, I haven't been able to find much information about it. Did this position officially exist within the CPSU, and if so, what were its responsibilities? Any guidance or references would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! SleepyJoe42 (talk) 14:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The article on Kirilenko on the Russian Wikipedia mentions many secretarial position in which he served, including serving on the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the CPSU, but nothing resembling this specific designation. The Secretariat oversaw the day-to-day operations of the Party, and specific areas of work were assigned to its members, such as agriculture, but I suspect this was not reflected in a title. Moreover, according to the Russian article on Kirilenko, he oversaw industry, capital construction, transport and communications. The article Секретариат ЦК КПСС states that Kirilenko served as co-Second Secretary next to Mikhail Andreyevich Suslov. --Lambiam 21:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

non-white acting like white
So far, apples means Indigenous peoples acting like white, coconuts means South Asian people acting like white, Oreo cookies means Black people like white and bananas means East and Southeast Asian acting like white, but is there a term for Middle Eastern people, Arabs, Iranians, Afghanis, Central Asians and Turkish peoples and others acting like white people? Donmust90 Donmust90 (talk) 18:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There does not seem to be a specific term for MENA individuals acting or identifying as white. 136.54.106.120 (talk) 23:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Racially speaking, Arabs, Iranians, Afghanis, Central Asians and Turkish are all Caucasians. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:22, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Some Central Asians look far more similar to Japanese than Caucasus. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, I'm trying to figure out what an Arab "acting like white" would look like. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:28, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * They are? What do Arabs have to do with the Caucasus mountains? Zanahary (talk) 06:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * See Caucasian race, specifically the sentence in the lede that says "In the United States, the root term Caucasian is still in use as a synonym for white or of European, Middle Eastern, or North African ancestry, a usage that has been criticized." I'm sure you're aware of this usage and are just pretending that it doesn't exist. Whether you like it or not, it's still a valid usage. --Viennese Waltz 07:06, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm sure you're aware of this usage and are just pretending that it doesn't exist Girl Zanahary (talk) 10:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In my travels, I have heard: Oreos for blacks in the U.S. and Bounty bar for blacks in the U.K., Coconuts for Hawaiians, Bananas for Chinese and Japanese, and apple for Native Americans. Googling, I see that coconut is used in Central/South America, many of the Pacific Islands, and Indonesia. There is no reason to assume it wouldn't be used in India as well as India is (I believe) the largest producers of coconuts. I want to make sure it is obvious that all of these terms are offensive. Just because some people say them does not mean that any person should use them, even if it seems funny. I used to think it was OK. I do not get offended. So, I was called a lot of names from silly ones like "round-eye" in China to "oyinbo" in Nigeria. But, I was told that because I laughed, it made the person who said those terms comfortable with saying them to other people who could be offended. So, instead of laughing along, I began asking others to be more polite. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 15:14, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you even know what "Oreo" indicates? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * They wrote in the question what it means (Black people acting like white), so why ask? --Lambiam 07:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I was talking to the IP, not to the OP. Oreo in plain language means "black on the outside, white on the inside", which is a harsh assessment, not intended to be funny. Which leads me to question whether the IP really understands the concept. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * (1) You didn't indent, so you appeared to be addressing the OP, not the IP. C'mon, you've been here for 20 years, you know how the indentation convention works.
 * (2) The IP geolocates to South Carolina, so (assuming no VPN), probably does know what "Oreo" indicates. Hell, I know and I live on a different continent. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.173 (talk) 22:12, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I failed to count correctly, but my indentions were well-intentioned. As for SC, considering who they keep voting for, I wouldn't make any assumptions about their intelligence level. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:35, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I see nothing in the IP's post that makes me question their understanding of the terms they are using. Making assumptions about someone's political leanings based on nothing more than the location from where they are posting does not suggest an excess of brightness. --Lambiam 05:28, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The IP brought up the notion the term "Oreo" somehow being considered "funny". It ain't. And as for being from SC, someone else brought that up too. I question the original premise "non-white acting like white". I don't think that's sufficient. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You did read the question, correct? The question brought up oreo. You did read my response, correct? My response stated that it is offensive even if some people think it is funny. So, now it appears that it is important for you to frame an entire state as stupid and racist to save face. I feel that says a lot more about you than it does me. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 13:16, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Who have you ever heard use "oreo" as a joke? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Many people. When I was growing up, other kids called me oreo (among many other offensive terms like injun, redskin, and chief) to be mean. They laughed because many kids think being mean to kids who are different is funny. My friends also called me oreo specifically to be funny because they felt it was a way of letting me know that they don't care that my dad was Cherokee instead of black. I am not claiming that it was a full stand-up routine on HBO. I am only stating that they laughed and, in my opinion, people tend to laugh at things that they think are funny. Similarly, if some kids found sticks on the playground, they wanted to play cowboys and Indians, which meant chasing me around the playground while throwing sticks at me and laughing. Because they laughed, I assume they found it funny. I still feel you haven't read my comment above. I feel that I clearly state that even though someone might think it is funny, it isn't. It is offensive. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 19:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You need to identify the which ones were those calling you so, and rationalize for each or each pack a conclusion, otherwise you're just propagating the bad spell ( Voodoo Ch'le ) --Askedonty (talk) 21:04, 28 May 2024 (UTC)