Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2015 January 6

= January 6 =

Why no primates native to the US ?
Other than humans, that is. There are New World monkeys in South America and Central America, so why didn't any migrate north ? Just too cold for them in winter ? (I wouldn't think being unable to cross the desert would be a reason, since they could follow the coasts north.) StuRat (talk) 15:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The article doesn't say. However, most New World monkeys are adapted to rain forest.  There isn't tropical rain forest in Mexico, let alone in the United States.  The time of the arrival of the New World monkeys in Central America was the beginning of a period of rapidly changing climate, since the closing of the Panama Strait is thought to have been one of the causes of Pleistocene global cooling and glaciation.  There may have never been an environment to which they were adapted north of Guatemala.  They haven't had nearly as long to expand into harsher environments as Old World monkeys - one or two million years as opposed to tens of millions of years for Asian temperate-climate monkeys.  Robert McClenon (talk) 15:42, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * This pop-sci article addresses that exact question . It confirms Robert's good points about the effects of global cooling and climate change in many areas. A few things to point out: Humans are not native to NA in the ecological sense of the word. We've just been introduced for a long time ;) Also, the article points out that there are primate fossils found in TX that date to ~43 mya, so there were at some point primates in what we now call NA (though I'm not quite sure where TX was 43 mya). SemanticMantis (talk) 15:58, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * There are actually monkeys in south-eastern Mexico, and primates have in the past entered North America via Siberia, such as Notharctus and Teilhardina_magnoliana, though these have since gone extinct. - Lindert (talk) 16:02, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * As far as there not being appropriate habitats for primates in the US, I should think the Everglades would do nicely, if they could get there. Of course, there are pythons, alligators and other predators that would snack on them, but they are able to survive in other land environments filled with predators, unlike, say, penguins.  The Hawaiian Islands would be an even better environment for them, if they could make it there.  Louisiana bayous might be another possible habitat.  StuRat (talk) 16:11, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The Isthmus of Panama closed only 3 million years ago. Since then consider that the opossum and the armadillo are the only major mammals to have made inroads as far north as US territory from South America. And those two animals have not yet extended their presence to their full potential range. Also, much of that period was colder than now, further restricting animals adapted to rainforests from moving north as Robert pointed out.  The presence of any monkeys at all in South America is also a mystery, since it was separated from Africa by the Atlantic, long before monkeys showed up in the SA fossil record.  This indicates a very rare colonization by rafting from Africa.  As a side note, see also rewilding, although it wouldn't exactly apply to monkeys.  Baboons in California would be a dreadful pest. μηδείς (talk) 18:43, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * What animals would be pushed out by Baboons in California (other than Humans, Baboons are obnoxious). Also, for California Baboons, I think the Chacma Baboon (South Africa and neighboring countries) would be the one that would fit in the best. Drop a Troop or two (say 200 animals) into the California Central Valley and they could survive indefinitely. Not as much fun as the Burmese Python in Florida, but close. (The main difference is that in Florida, the environmentalists want the Python gone and don't particularly care how its done (Shotgun, .45, Scud, etc)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naraht (talk • contribs)


 * I used the term pest as I had humans in mind. (Pythons are human-introduced, armadillos and east-coast opossums aren't.) Look also at the problem with langur monkey attacks on people in india. μηδείς (talk) 20:13, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Popular Science: Why Are There No Native Monkeys in North America? -- ToE 23:44, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, good info there, although the title is misleading as there are primates in North America (Mexico, and Central America, too, if you count that as part of NA). StuRat (talk) 03:01, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Not to mention humans and the Sasquatch. μηδείς (talk) 03:06, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * That article is interesting, but the Anaptomorphinae are primitive Tarsiiformes, not even as derived as the South American Monkeys, let alone Eurasian moneys and apes. μηδείς (talk) 03:02, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: Already linked by SemanticMantis above. Nil Einne (talk) 11:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops, missed that! -- ToE 13:18, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ha! I guess I should work on my clarity and link style ;) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:06, 7 January 2015 (UTC)