Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2020 January 14

= January 14 =

Sunflower plants in the Land of the Midnight Sun
What happens when you grow a sunflower plant in the Land of the Midnight Sun? Does it twist itself into a helix or something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1000:B14C:1F6C:2402:49B2:19E7:E05D (talk) 14:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Why would it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:39, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * No, it grows toward the artificial light you have supplied or, it does not grow at all or withers very quickly. However you may be interested in reading articles concerning the germination of seeds on Mir (or maybe on the ISS?) Space Station.  Due to the lack of gravity, the seed do tend to curl around themselves.  Another Wikipedian may be able to source our article for this or provide a general link to valid source.  I recall reading about this several years ago and it was very interesting as are many of the experiments they do there, such as hatching chicken eggs.  Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 15:41, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Will sunflowers even grow in the polar regions? (Outdoors, that is) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I won't say never, as there will always be that one, but it is highly doubtful. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 15:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Folks, if you aren't sure... why are you answering?
 * At the Alaska State Fair in Fairbanks, they annually compete for record-setting fruits and vegetables. This year, the sunflowers grew to nearly seventeen feet tall in Palmer, Alaska.  The long hours of sunlight affect plant growth profoundly.
 * This vegetable-gigantism has been studied scientifically and is a major element of popular culture in polar regions.
 * For more reading on unique features of agriculture in the far North, here is the University of Alaska's agriculture extension website, publishing fun tips for home-gardeners and very up-to-date research for commercial farmers and scientists.
 * Nimur (talk) 16:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Where do those links address the OP's question about the plant "twisting itself into a helix"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:07, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Best I can guess: The questioner thinks that if the sun never truly sets, it goes from east to south to west to north to east to south to west to north... So, the sunflower will twist around itself, following the sun. But, the sun remains in pretty much the same direction, making an oval. So, the sunflower will pretty much point in the same direction and have no reason to twist. 135.84.167.41 (talk) 19:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The OP might not understand what the midnight sun situation looks like. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * When you're above the Arctic Circle in the summer, the sun does go all the way around the horizon from east to south to west to north to east. You can see a time lapse movie from Spitsbergen here: .  Of course, if you're below the Antarctic Circle, the sun goes from east to north to west to south instead.  There is no place on Earth from which the sun appears to remain in pretty much the same direction.  (That would require the sun to be in geosynchronous orbit.)  --Amble (talk) 21:28, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I wonder if there is some confusion from the OP about what sunflowers actually do even in countries with reasonable day-night cycles. Perhaps a read of Heliotropism and the associated ref [//escholarship.org/uc/item/0cz6x139] will clear up some confusion. This may also be of interest [//plantsinmotion.bio.indiana.edu/plantmotion/movements/tropism/solartrack/solartrack.html]. If you want more, see [//www.botany.one/2016/11/4-reasons-sunflowers-face-sun/] and these 2 refs from it [//science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6299/587.full.pdf+html], [//academic.oup.com/aob/article/117/1/1/2195713] and this video [//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCRNHdGXTi4]. (If the science ref is too complicated for you it received a lot of media attention e.g. [//www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/05/488891151/the-mystery-of-why-sunflowers-turn-to-follow-the-sun-solved].) Sunflowers track the sun from east to west during the day, then return to east during the night when immature but as they mature this stops and they only point east. While I couldn't find any refs that discuss what sunflowers in places with a true midnight sun, my guess from the earlier sources (and note that several mention, as do others e.g. [//academic.oup.com/aob/article/124/3/343/5519655] floral heliotropism is observed in a number of arctic plants) is that they simply do the same thing and track the sun when immature and end up facing east when mature, assuming there's nothing significantly affecting regular growth. As Nimur mention, generally their growth may be somewhat different from place with reasonable day night-cycles. See also [//uaf.edu/files/snre/MP_10_01.pdf]  I did try to find images or reports of sunflowers in places with a true midnight sun, especially one lasting weeks. I did find [//www.reuters.com/article/us-arctic-sunflower/sunflowers-brighten-life-near-north-pole-idUSL0465606920070905] which was interesting but perhaps not very illustrative. While there are many reports of them growing in Alaska as Nimur and the refs mention or e.g.  (which mentions it can be difficult for some of them), I'm fairly sure we're referring to places not far north enough for a true midnight sun. Noting of course that Utqiagvik, Alaska is I think the largest Alaskan settlement north of the Arctic Circle per our article. (Despite the claims here [//www.smithsonianmag.com/photocontest/detail/natural-world/the-sunflower-basking-in-the-land-of-the-midnight-sun-the-sunflower-soaks-u/], I'm unconvinced it was taken in a place with a true midnight sun. See also [//www.smithsonianmag.com/photocontest/detail/natural-world/the-fireweed-the-fireweed-blooms-from-the-bottom-up-watch-out-though-when-i/].)  Searching for northernmost is also not very successful e.g. [//twitter.com/alisterdoyle/status/640526586199076864]. The fact that sunflowers are a commercial crop for oil production doesn't really help searches. [//books.google.co.nz/books?id=Ofx4qg0SmIEC&pg=PA273&ots=PwiHZyQPQ6] Nor does things like. [//www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-crisis-norilsk/russias-biggest-miner-faces-arctic-prices-challenge-idUSKBN0L30D520150130] But the summer climate in some places seems like it should be okay for some sunflowers even without greenhouse assistance like that used in earlier ref for an extreme case, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Just choose ones with a relatively short growth cycle. (You maybe have ~ 3 months.)  Nil Einne (talk) 00:51, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Sea partons
What are exactly sea partons/nonvalence partons? Are they real particles or just something that pops up under different sorts of measurement like wave-particle duality? The article doesn't really explain anything.
 * There has been an evolution to that regard, which it's well explained in Component particles and Reference frame, but you must have some understanding of how things are working beyond of the isospin quantum numbers for making some sense of it. Regarding valence and sea, it's about the degree of freedom of the particle in the considered context. --Askedonty (talk) 18:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The first two links are what I meant by "does not explain anything"... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.168.121.5 (talk) 18:56, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Getting something popping up while making the measurements implies there's has to be something in real as long as the model is keeping enough of its coherence. It's not as far seeking as trying to solve wave-particle duality. Time dilatation was predicted and quantization is not practiced as a random process. --Askedonty (talk) 21:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah it seems I'm missing some basic knowledge about this to understand the concept. (not a physics student or anything) 31.45.226.221 (talk) 23:04, 14 January 2020 (UTC)