Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2022 December 18

= December 18 =

Is it safer to run washer + dryer in same strip outlet, or same wall outlet?
And if you run a washer and dryer at the same time, on the same strip outlet, if something happens, more like the appliance will be damaged and break a circuit, than the strip outlet, right? Also, older washing machines spin horizontally and newer washing machines spin vertically, do the new 1s who spin vertically use less amps than the older 1s? Not because of spinning, but less water use, which would make spinning easier. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 14:49, 18 December 2022 (UTC).
 * Before anyone can give you an answer about your wiring you need to specify which country you are in. As regards the washing machines, they should have pumped all water out before the spin starts, so it depends upon the fabrics within and how much water they retain. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, if voltage is the issue then it's worse in the UK, but since this is about amps, would be worse in U.S. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 15:58, 18 December 2022 (UTC).
 * It's also about how houses are wired. The term "strip outlet" makes me guess that you are in the USA where ring mains are rare/unknown. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The IP geolocates to Chicago, and I expect there are many wiring possibilities in that city. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:49, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * If the simultaneous use of the appliances results in an overcurrent, a circuit breaker should step in and shut off the power, thereby grinding the appliances to a halt. Such appliances are designed to withstand sudden power interruptions, so this should by itself not damage them. If the wiring has been done properly and modern circuit breakers are used, the breakers should just trip and be easily reset – which should only be done after disengaging one of the appliances. If the wiring has been done improperly or disfunctional circuit breakers are used, overcurrent engenders a house fire risk because of overheating wires, by itself much worse than the risk of damaged appliances. To stay on the safe side, make sure the combined power is not more than nominally supported by the outlet and breakers. --Lambiam 21:27, 18 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure both appliances come with a warning not to use a power strip or surge protector, but instead connect each directly to the wall. 74.64.73.24 (talk) 00:50, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

If I have a bowl of water with salt and sugar in it...
Is it possible to filtrate out the salt without the sugar, or filtrate out the sugar without the salt? So I think the answer is osmosis and reverse osmosis. Osmosis is where you filtrate out the solute from the water, reverse osmosis is where you filtrate out the water from the solute. So for this case, you 1st have to osmosis/revere osmosis the salt 1st, then sugar. (Because salt is smaller than sugar.). Otherwise, filtrating out the sugar, sucks salt with it. Note that if salt and sugar crystals are initially the same size, then you stir the water until the salt dissolves into ions, which sugar will not. Otherwise, not possible if they are the same size. But is this method accurate, and, are there other methods? And I don't think doing osmosis or reverse, is easily done at home, because for 2 containers separate by a membrane, you need to find a way to increase/decrease the pressure of 1 container, are stuff like this already made? 67.165.185.178 (talk) 20:10, 18 December 2022 (UTC).
 * How about you speak to the washer-dryer question first, before posing another one? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The simplest sweet sugars, glucose, fructose, and galactose, have a molar mass of about 180&thinsp;g·mol−1, while that of kitchen salt is just shy of a third of that, at about 58&thinsp;g·mol−1. When sugar dissolves in water, the molecules remain intact; only the weak bonds between different molecules are broken. But when salt dissolves in water, each salt molecule turns into a sodium and a chloride ion, both much smaller than a sugar molecule. Therefore I expect that there are ion-exchange membranes with pores of a size that will block sugar molecules from passing through yet allow the passage of sodium and chloride ions. After filtration, the result should be a low-salt sugar solution on one side, and a very diluted salt solution on the other side. --Lambiam 21:59, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it should be possible to make a membrane that blocks salt but allows sugar through too, based on the charge of sodium or chloride ions. You only have to block one of them, the other ion will be blocked by the electric field after a few have diffused to the other side. Or there may be some solvent in which salt or sugar dissolves, but the other doesn't. Solubility of sugars in water is generally better than the solubility of kitchen salt (you didn't mention exactly what sugar and salt you're dealing with), so by concentrating the solution you may be able to get the salt out, partially at least. Or evaporate the water, melt the sugar and filtrate (or does salt dissolve in molten sugar?), but that risks pyrolysis of sugar. Or evaporate the water and try to get giant crystals of sugar and salt, which can be separated by hand. Or try some chemistry trick to replace the chloride ions by some other ion, then try one of the above tricks. But a filter based on size sounds simplest and may be commercially available. Probably still not worth the effort, though. PiusImpavidus (talk) 12:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)