Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2022 January 24

= January 24 =

Why were much of Japan's deciduous forests replaced with conifer plantations?
As mentioned in the article Japanese wolf. What purpose do the plantations serve? ZFT (talk) 06:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Not sure it gives a good reason, but see Afforestation in Japan for some background. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:32, 24 January 2022 (UTC)


 * This chapter titled "Japanese Forestation Policies During the 20 Years Following World War II" gives an explanation:

During World War II, the area cut annually in Japan exceeded the area planted, and cutover land was common. Within approximately 10 years of the end of the war, however, forestation on cutover land was almost complete. In the 10 years that followed, forestation policies targeted increasing coniferous tree plantations to secure industrial roundwood. Forestation plans and legal systems were developed, and organizations such as the Prefectural Forestry Corporations and Forest Development Corporation were founded to promote the planting of coniferous trees. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:36, 24 January 2022 (UTC)


 * "The softwood derived from conifers is of great economic value, providing about 45% of the world's annual lumber production. Other uses include the production of paper and plastic from chemically treated wood pulp." (Quoting Conifer.--Shantavira|feed me 09:12, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * A similar drive for domestic softwood production in the UK (in this case following WWI) resulted in the Forestry Commission. Alansplodge (talk) 09:44, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

drum in front of a military military (WW I)
What is the name and the purpose of this "oil barrel" mounted in the very front? --Mateus2019 (talk) 16:56, 24 January 2022 (UTC)


 * It is probably a mine roller. Nimur (talk) 17:32, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * (ec)Not sure about the drum but it appears to be a Somua MCG-4 or MCG-5 artillery tractor (or possibly an earlier version). Lots of descriptions of this vehicle but I can't find an explanation for the drum. Mikenorton (talk) 17:38, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Also found on other half-tracks, such as the M3 and the Unic P107 (File:Unic P107, Musée des Blindés, France, pic-2.JPG). Mikenorton (talk) 17:53, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Explanation with useful diagram found here, to quote "the roller worked to prevent the front bumper from digging in when at too severe of an angle of approach. Its contact would lift the front wheels". Mikenorton (talk) 18:59, 24 January 2022 (UTC)


 * And it turns out that WP:WHAAOE wins again - see unditching roller. Mikenorton (talk)
 * Thanks Mikenorton! I agree, it's more likely to be an unditching roller (it's positioned a little close to the engine-block to be useful as any kind of mine flail or mine roller).  Nimur (talk) 20:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Ice age meat conservation
I read long ago maybe in Scientific American about archeology, maybe in the USA or Canada, where they escavated a well or shaft finding some vertical pole and round each pole several rather heavy stones. They reconstructed it so, that hunters in the past were filling intestines of some large game with meat and some stones, then wrapped the filled intestines round some poles inserted under water in a pond, the stones helping to sink the meat. The cold water would conserve the meat for several months, maybe helping lactic fermentation. I cannot find references any more. Can you help please? Thank you. 2003:F5:6F0E:8B00:4002:87CF:C1C1:20DB (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2022 (UTC) Marco PB
 * It wouldn't work for long in the current summer climate of central USA but in places or ice ages when the average annual temperature is colder, like fridge or freezer cold, then the very bottom of a deep enough water body might be the temperature of the densest temperature of water (4°C). If it is very deep like contemporary Lake Superior the acceptably cold layer thickness might be many many meters. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:58, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That doesn't sound like a very effective way to preserve meat. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're describing? If you left the meat hanging in an empty, dry well or shaft, especially if it had been initially smoked or salted, you would have a kind of larder. But if you then put that meat into a pond, all you'd end up with is some very happy fish. Matt Deres (talk) 14:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Depends if you can make fish unwilling or unable to pierce intestines or not. With mammals you can coat it with sticky high-capsaicin stuff, with birds that doesn't work, with fish I don't know. And maybe whether you make the intestines waterproof is important too. And if you can MacGyver a vacuum pump with a mouthpiece and one-way flap or something maybe even better. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The OP is asking about an archaeological site; what are you going on about with vacuum pumps and capsaicin? Matt Deres (talk) 19:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If you have a Stone Age way to deter animals from underwater meat intestines that would be more realistic. Maybe there's a way, some gardeners deter herbivory with a dried blood bag from the garden store (USA deer don't want to eat anything that smells like a light dusting of pulverized blood) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:51, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank to everyone. Someone tried actually and let some meat in a pond under cold water and it was still edible after several months, althought with an unusual smell (but people eat Surströmming, don't they?). On the other side I don't think fish to be a real problem in isolated subglacial bog ponds.
 * But yes, I was looking for references about this particular archeological site, but it was no full article but instead a short message under news so it is not a surprise even googl doesn't know of it. 2003:F5:6F0E:8B00:B4DB:248B:38E7:9C7E (talk) 20:33, 25 January 2022 (UTC) Marco PB
 * Is it anoxic down there? That might help. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:51, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It occurred to me too, that the anoxic environment deep in the water of a pond could be relevant, I'm thinking for example about the so called Bog Bodies, dead people or animals conserved during up to some millenia in the anaerobic, acidic environment of peat bogs. But how far they are still edible is an open question. 2003:F5:6F0E:FD00:3110:6631:C3BB:E9DB (talk) 17:47, 26 January 2022 (UTC) Marco PB
 * Anecdotally (meaning I haven't looked for references), it seems to be the case for some samples of Bog butter. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.224.157 (talk) 18:15, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You have it. That could be a practical solution for the European surplus butter problem. 2003:F5:6F14:DE00:D0F0:4D6E:90B2:D717 (talk) 17:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC) Marco PB