Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2022 July 15

= July 15 =

The history of Lot with a scientific aspect
Is the history of Lot, can be real from the scientific science? It is written that he was so drunk that he couldn't know that he slept with his daughter, and from this even he got a son. Now my question is if it's possible to be such uncouncious and still have errection etc. ThePupil (talk) 01:00, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Right, not possible. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 05:03, 15 July 2022 (UTC).


 * [Edit Conflict] Alcohol affects different people in different ways, significantly though not entirely due to inheritence of multiple genetic traits that (as so often in human physiology) may interact in complex ways with variable results. The traits involved have often been somewhat selected for or against in different populations according to those populations' deep historical exposure (or not) to alcohol. (In other words, if one's ancestral culture drank more alcohol, one will likely tolerate it better; if not; one may get incapably drunk more easily.)
 * I can well believe it possible that someone could (a) be able to ejaculate whilst either (b) too drunk to recognise his "assailant", or sufficiently judgement-impaired to (c) go along with an inappropriate liaison and (d) suffer genuine memory loss afterwards: I myself have experienced (c) and (d) separately (the (c) occasion being adulterous, not incestuous, and in my case (a) did not apply!).
 * All that said, most serious historians unbiased by faith would likely assess the biblical stories relating to that alleged era as myths constructed to explain various later-observed features, demographics and nomenclatures, and/or to teach various moral strictures, and in no way a genuine record of actually existing individuals or real historical events. See for a starting point Historicity of the Bible. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.169.177 (talk) 05:28, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Surely this is one of the less implausible parts of Genesis 19, no? I would be more curious about the scientific explanation for verse 11, "they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great"; or verse 24, "Then the rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire"; or verse 26, "his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt". Shells-shells (talk) 06:08, 15 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Our article on erectile dysfunction doesn't list alcohol as a trigger, but even a quick search online finds plenty of sources to support the idea that drunk men often struggle to achieve or maintain an erection. But the question was - is it possible to be inebriated to the point of not recognizing close family while still being able to perform sexually - and that's not the same thing. I don't know if it passes muster as a WP:RS, but here is a first hand account of a man that was raped by a woman while inebriated and his story certainly sounds credible. As our article at rape of males notes, this type of crime is largely under-reported for a whole host of social and personal reasons. Consider also this: if the story was that Lot had gotten drunk and raped his daughters (instead of vice versa) it probably wouldn't elicit much commentary about being physically impossible: don't conflate the unlikelihood of one thing (daughters demanding sex of father) with another (drunk man having sex). Matt Deres (talk) 17:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It's probably a lot more likely than someone turning into a pillar of salt. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:20, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The story was of course set, and told for Iron-age culture listeners resident in or near, the Jordan Rift Valley, where there are extensive salt deposits and various wind-carved geological features in the desert or semi-desert terrain. Undoubtably there were (and are now – I've seen photos) one or more features suggesting through Pareidolia the figure of a woman. Similarly, this being an anciently inhabited region much fought over for thousands of years, there are any amount of ruined ancient city (or at least citadel) remains, as well as natural features resembling artificial structures.
 * Consider the very extensive list of 'cities' that Joshua and his 'army' supposedly conquered and destroyed in a couple of years, although modern archeological evidence for those identified shows their various ends were spread over centuries (this being after the Late Bronze Age collapse). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.169.177 (talk) 21:36, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've seen similar photos. Basically a rock formation in search of a story. As to Joshua, maybe he had ultrasonic ram horns. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Didn't need them; archeology demonstrates that Jericho was reduced to ruins some three centuries before any reasonable setting date for the Exodus (etc.) story, and was essentially an uninhabited rubble pile when supposedly he "Fit the Battle." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.169.177 (talk) 05:03, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * That assumes they've correctly deduced where Jericho was. --←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:19, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Is (current population 20,000+). Its history goes back 11.000 years, its archeological record is extensive, and there was never a shred of doubt as to its location, even during the periods it was in ruins. Exodus was of course compiled/written long after it was rebuilt. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.169.177 (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2022 (UTC)