Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2023 June 18

= June 18 =

Non human animals that are considered sentient beings?
Does anyone have a current list of which non human species which are now considered by scientists to be sentient? Last I heard it was the gorilla, chimpanzee, the two African grey parrots, the European magpie and perhaps some octopuses. Has there been any more recent additions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.128.34 (talk) 00:56, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I just did a search. In the UK, octopi, lobsters and crabs in addition to ALL vertebrates are considered sentient beings. Wow. I always thought that intelligence was a factor (edit: are cows/sheep/pigs considered sentient?). I read Professor Pepperberg's books about her studies on parrots and even though she spent 30 years with ONE African grey parrot (Alex) who appeared to demonstrate sentience - looking in a mirror and asking "what colour am I?" (first animal that ever asked an existential question???), she wasn't sure, even now, whether Alex was a one-off unique mind or not. She hasn't found another one as of now, but apparently Alex was utterly furious that the other parrots in Pepperberg's lab were responding inadequately to the same experiments he'd been involved with. Anyway from Psittacus - Birds appear to offer, in their behavior, neurophysiology, and neuroanatomy a striking case of parallel evolution of consciousness. Evidence of near human-like levels of consciousness has been most dramatically observed in African grey parrots., so there you go. Iloveparrots (talk) 02:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Octopi are definitely smart. They have problem-solving intelligence. Sadly, they have not yet solved the problem of why their lifespans are so short. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:41, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The popular meaning of "sentient" seems to have shifted over the years. 'When I were a lad' it was often used (particularly in the Science Fiction I read copiously) to mean something like 'conscious and reasoning', with the implication of having human-comparable intelligence; this popular meaning seems latterly to have been replaced by "sapient", with sentient reverting to its original meaning as detailed in the linked article, implying a capacity to suffer. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 46.65.228.117 (talk) 04:28, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * What is "sentient"? Do we have a stable, widely agreed upon and testable definition? In any case, such a list of sentient (or sapient) animals suggests that somebody devised a test that's supposed to demonstrate sentience (or sapience), then subjected a random sample of animals to the test. Those listed passed, some others failed, most were never tested. Obviously, animal rights activists will assume every animal is sentient unless proven otherwise; hunters and fishermen will assume no animal is sentient unless proven otherwise:
 * Fisherman: ‘It's OK if we catch grey mullet. They aren't sentient, so they can't suffer.’
 * Scientist: ‘We've just proven that grey mullets can feel pain.’
 * Fisherman: ‘OK, I'm sorry. I'll switch to red mullet. They can't feel pain.’
 * (One year later)
 * Scientist: ‘We've just proven that red mullets can feel pain.’
 * Fisherman: ‘OK, I'm sorry. I'll switch to black mullet. They can't feel pain.’
 * (One year later)
 * Scientist: ‘We've just proven that black mullets can feel pain.’
 * Fisherman: ‘OK, I'm sorry. I'll switch to striped mullet. They can't feel pain.’
 * (etc.)
 * For the plural of octopus, see the usage notes at octopus. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:29, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Douglas Hofstadter discusses Thomas Nagel's What Is It Like to Be a Bat? in The Mind's I:
 * Meanwhile (admittedly almost 40 years later, but are we really any clearer?) the UK has the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, and Wikipedia has an article on Animal consciousness (beset with a number of difficulties). Card Zero  (talk) 10:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Meanwhile (admittedly almost 40 years later, but are we really any clearer?) the UK has the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, and Wikipedia has an article on Animal consciousness (beset with a number of difficulties). Card Zero  (talk) 10:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)