Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2023 June 21

= June 21 =

Lost submersible at the Titanic site
Something I heard on a radio phone-in tonight, and I wondered if it was true. There was someone who said he had expertise in this area called up and pointed out that if (specifically) those guys were stuck at the bottom of that particular area of ocean in their sub, then they were pretty much screwed. Said something about how they might as well be stuck on the moon for all their chances of rescue, that you can count on one hand the number of vessels in the world capable of reaching that depth and that none of them would be capable of performing deep sea rescue operations. Also that the US and Canadian navies don't have any such vessels anyway and it would take too long to transport anything else in place before the lost peoples' oxygen supplies ran out. Basically that it wasn't looking good at all. Any thoughts? Iloveparrots (talk) 01:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * DSRV is a good lead article for information about who has what capabilities (as publicly known). DMacks (talk) 01:53, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * So, according to that article, the Americans have one with a maximum operating depth of 1500m, which is the deepest mentioned. Worst case scenario, the Titan could be sitting at over 3800m deep. Not good. Iloveparrots (talk) 15:45, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * And 2023 Titan submersible incident is what Wikipedia has about this accident so far. (Side comment: I'm somewhat amazed that they gave the vehicle that name. Anyone interested in the Titanic should know about the novel The Wreck of the Titan.) --142.112.221.43 (talk) 04:42, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * An example of Nemesis clobbering Hubris, as somebody once said. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 46.65.228.117 (talk) 07:35, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * And I see other similarities between the Titan and the Titanic, too: performance and cost reduction being prioritized over safety; people warning the owner about safety concerns and basically being told to get lost; and serious malfunctions occurring during the maiden voyage (and during every single one of the subsequent voyages, which is one major difference from the Titanic, whose first voyage was also her last). 2601:646:9882:46E0:7DE6:4D87:FC8E:D68 (talk) 12:34, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Isn't Titan named for the fact that it has a titanium hull? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 07:41, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a distraction The Gods did to hide the poetic truth until it is too late. Zarnivop (talk) 12:07, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If the hull remains intact, the bodies should be well-preserved for a while. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:52, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * A little tastlessly premature, since (as I write) they may still be alive, and may yet be rescued (though I'm not optimistic). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 46.65.228.117 (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Gallows humor. Sorry. :( ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If one murdered the rest he still has plenty of oxygen, just saying.
 * Then again, there is no way in the world to save him in time even if the sub is found. So - it's moot. They're all dead, and that is a fact. Zarnivop (talk) 18:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Latest
The US Coastguard announced about an hour ago that debris has been found consistent with a catastrophic failure of the pressure hull. The incident would not have been survivable. No statement has been made about the recovery of any bodies/parts. My condolences (and I would hope all readers' condolences) to the families. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:11, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * My condolences extend to the families of the four passengers. I find it harder to muster sympathy for the CEO who fired and sued the guy who raised safety concerns and generally (from what I gather from media reports) followed the "how to have an industrial accident" playbook to perfection. In doing so, he killed four others directly (and maybe one or two more, indirectly, because the expense of search rescue operations). Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 08:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Sympathy (having like feelings) for the dead is a bit morbid, but he left a spouse and two children (now adults) behind, all of them descendants of Titanic victims Isidor and Ida Straus. --Lambiam 10:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * All of which is a reasonable perspective to have, but the expression of which is not the point of this space. Mind you, you were not the first to take discussion in the direction of open-ended speculation and personal opinion, so I don't mean to single you out, but this should be the end of all discourse centered around recriminations, value judgments, 'gallows humour'/jokes of any kind, or literally anything else other than supplying sources that respond to the OPs inquiry. SnowRise let's rap 06:25, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * They were already dead on Sunday. And the article 2023 Titan submersible incident should have enough info to answer the OP's questions. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:50, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Which are reasons to say nothing at all, or point the OP to that resource, not to crack jokes about well-preserved corpses. Sn</b><b style="color:#99d5fe;">o</b><b style="color:#b2dffe;">w</b><b style="color:#B27EB2;">Rise</b><b style="color:#d4143a"> let's rap</b> 00:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Or about murdering other passengers, to extend the air supply. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:09, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Correct. <b style="color:#19a0fd;">S</b><b style="color:#66c0fd">n</b><b style="color:#99d5fe;">o</b><b style="color:#b2dffe;">w</b><b style="color:#B27EB2;">Rise</b><b style="color:#d4143a"> let's rap</b> 20:55, 25 June 2023 (UTC)