Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Coolcaesar

Moved here because of size. Rejected 12:07, 29 July 2006 (UTC) because after well over a week it has no chance of being accepted.

Involved Parties
(some parties may not be contributing to Wikipedia at the present time, and many other users who are involved may not be listed) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.227.173.154 (talk • contribs)
 * user:Coolcaesar
 * user:Ericsaindon2
 * user:Mr.Executive
 * user:OC31113
 * user:Decimal10
 * user:Asbestos
 * user:off!
 * user:Siroxo
 * user:SleekWeasel
 * user:Invitatious
 * user:ThomasisScholar
 * user:24.64.223.203
 * user:Rewinn
 * user:Preslethe
 * user:Fahrenheit451
 * user:Gleng

Comfirm all parties are aware of request

 * user:Coolcaesar []
 * user:Ericsaindon2 []
 * user:Mr.Executive-initiator
 * user:OC31113 []
 * user:Decimal10 []
 * user:off! []
 * user:Asbestos []
 * user:Siroxo []
 * user:SleekWeasel []
 * user:Invitatious []
 * user:ThomasisScholar []
 * user:24.64.223.203 []
 * user:Rewinn []
 * user:Preslethe []
 * user:Fahrenheit451 []
 * user:Gleng []


 * Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

        
 * User has been warned that further consequences will come if his personal attacks don’t cease on numerous occasions


 * This user tends to use inappropriate language, and uses personal attacks for his own benefit in a situation. Despite the notices of his inappropriate actions (in list above) he continues to bring negative energy to the project, and tends to humiliate other users

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 * This user also tends to leave inappropriate and degrading comments as his edit summary. Since he usually does not back his statements up on talk pages, most of this disruptive behavior is seen in the edit summary. He tends to disrespect the hard work of others in these summaries.

  []     [] []
 * User misuses the term “vandalism" in its context on a continuous basis


 * Mediation was offered to settle a dispute between several editors, and rejected by user:Coolcaesar which was offered by user:PS2pcGAMER on the Talk:Anaheim Hills, Anaheim, California page for he thought another user should just "give in" to what he requests out of the page. Instead of taking this more peaceful approach, he decided to file an Arbitration Case against the user he was against. I dont think it would be any use just one week later to try and introduce mediation again.


 * After this user apologized for his destructive behavior to arbitration, it began again in this edit summary. This shows that even a pending case against him is not enough to change his actions, and that his behavior can only be changed with punishment. []

Checkuser request
Due to the allegations that user:Coolcaesar has used sock puppets, I request that the CheckUser tool be used to inspect the records in regard to user:Anaheimat.

Suspected puppets



Statement by user:Mr.Executive
User:Coolcaesar has involved himself in many controversial pages in his career at Wikipedia. However, in most cases it is reasonable for two editors to disagree from time to time. This particular user tends to make derogatory comments, misuses the term of vandalism, and degrades the emotions of the people he disagrees with. Over the past two years, over 50 Wikipedians have fallen victim to his cruel comments and harsh reactions to disagreements on a page. He has been notified plenty of times for his egotistic attitude, and strong views, but continues to use his comments in a ruthless and inhumane way. This type of an extremely negative attitude disrupts the other editors who engage in normal conversations. These users do not deserve these comments they receive just for having a different viewpoint, yet find themselves humiliated with his comments in front of many other editors who read these personal attacks. As we all know, this type of editing and commenting does not provide any positive change to the Wikipedia community, and has gone on long enough. One major Wikipedia rule that is probably most shun upon is the devaluing and personal attacks toward new users who are learning their way around Wikipedia. Many users who edit a page for their first time do so incorrectly, but user:Coolcaesar tends to use personal attacks and their lack of knowledge against them. He is also suspected of having a sockpuppet, user:Anaheimat, which as an experienced Wikipedian, he knows that these are prohibited. Another tendency of this user is to revert edits continuously, as for he claims articles as “his own”, and leaves personal attacks on these edit summaries.

Statement by User:Coolcaesar
This request for arbitration is clearly a retaliatory and harassing move on the part of Ericsaindon2 in response to my recent filing of a request for arbitration against him. Furthermore, to file it, he used a sockpuppet for the umpteenth time in violation of Wikipedia policy (as noted by SCEhardt). I have already noted Ericsaindon's attempt at retaliation on the Evidence page for Ericsaindon2's arbitration.

I will concede that on certain occasions I have forgotten about the civility policy (particularly when I was editing WP to cool off after a bad day and came across inept edits or clear vandalism). But I also wish to remind the Committee that unlike Ericsaindon2, the vast majority of my edits have greatly improved the encyclopedia. In particular, see my work on Lawyer, Roger J. Traynor, Rest area, Pruneyard Shopping Center, the State Bar of California, and the Supreme Court of California. Unlike me, very few editors go to the trouble of providing citations to reliable, verifiable hard copy sources for the assertions in their edits.

Also, because of my passion for Wikipedia, I have provided under the GFDL many high-quality photographs of important places and things; see Puerto Vallarta, Motel 6, University of California, Santa Barbara, FedEx, and World Wide Web.

I apologize for my tendency towards excessively harsh commentary. In the future, I will be more careful about complying with the civility policy. I ask all members of the Committee to vote to reject Ericsaindon2's frivolous request. --Coolcaesar 05:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In response to Ericsaindon2's rather self-serving statement, I wish to point out that I have always acted in good faith. I have been careful to comply with core Wikipedia policies: Verifiability, Neutral point of view, No original research, and What Wikipedia is not while Ericsaindon2 has repeatedly inserted unverifiable, partisan original research as if Wikipedia were his personal soapbox &mdash; as I have pointed out on the Evidence page for his arbitration.  Even though I do not always agree with the consensus of the community, I have conceded to it many times, and I have been careful to not violate the 3RR rule or to use sockpuppets.  This is why I have never been blocked, while in contrast, Ericsaindon2 has been blocked seven times so far [], and his sockpuppets Mr.Executive and Mr.Executive2 have been blocked indefinitely.   Having failed in his quest to distort the Anaheim Hills article (which was properly resisted by User:Mike Dillon and User:Will Beback), Ericsaindon2 is now lashing out in a vindictive bad faith action against me, just because I stepped in and did the legal research that conclusively repudiated his position (see the arguments and counterarguments at Talk:Anaheim Hills, Anaheim, California).  I again urge the Committee to vote to reject this frivolous request. --Coolcaesar 16:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by User:69.238.56.207

 * Note that right after this user apologized for his destructive comments, he left this edit summary clearly showing that his apology means absolutely nothing, and his behavior is not ceasing [] --69.238.56.207 19:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * And yet another rude statement was made by this user earlier. His word has no basis or foundation, and is not worth anything, for in just 3 days, he has managed to offend 2 more people. It is a clear sign that his behavior is not changing, and something MUST be done to stop him []


 * Victim #3 in less than 48 hours. WOW!!! His apology is very tarnished by his acting in bad faith once again. How can you believe someone who has lied to you, and continues the disruptive behavior even after dozens of warnings and an arbitration case against him was opened. There is no plan for him to stop, as evident by this edit, and the other 2 edits he has made in 2 days since he lied to the ArbCom. Sickening, truely sickening. []


 * And some more destructive behavior made this morining. This user is out of control []

Comment by User:JCO312
Although not involved in this dispute, I have been involved with several articles that User:Coolcaesar has also edited, most notably the article on Capital punishment. I have never seen any comments from him that rise to the level of "inhumane." It's true that he is assertive in his edits and comments; he has also always been correct in every edit I've ever seen. There are unquestionably users out here who abuse others, but I firmly believe that Coolcaesar is not one of them. JCO312 13:20, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by President Lethe
I'm not involved in this dispute.

When I got notice of this matter, I wasn't sure what it was all about. I knew I had seen several edits by Coolcaesar at "United States" and Talk:United States, and I didn't have any specific recollection of hostility there.

Then I remembered that he'd been the one to write "DUDE! ARE YOU BLIND OR DYSLEXIC OR SOMETHING? Read the top of this page! There's a humongous link RIGHT THERE to Talk:United States/Frequently asked questions. That's the sixth or seventh time that question has been asked this year!" at Talk:United States—but, when I originally saw that edit, I took it as somewhat humorous, one-off flabbergastedness.

This morning, however, having looked at every one of the references of Coolcaesar's behavior linked above, I'm ... just very surprised and rather annoyed.

Now I also see that Coolcaesar is the person whose "idiot" and "dumb" edit summaries at "Raised pavement marker" led me to leave a brief comment at his/her Talk page once.

I don't know what to say. My recollection of most of what Coolcaesar has done at "United States" and its Talk for the last weeks is one of decent civility. Why Coolcaesar has such a different style elsewhere: it baffles me. I've seen Coolcaesar be decent and civil and even nice; so why all the hostility and meanness and personal attacks elsewhere? I'm sure other users exhibit the same contradictions; but it's just strange to see such detail of it in one specific user.

The main thing that gets me is the NUMBER of instances of incivility: so many times calling things a mess and calling users idiots and dumb and bozos and ... just on and on and on. Appalling.

I know Coolcaesar is capable of being a good contributor; it's happened plenty of times. '''But something must be done to effect the end of the poor behavior. Immediately. This behavior must not continue.' [Boldface and "Immediately. This behavior must not continue" added later. — President Lethe 14:01, 21 July 2006 (UTC)'']

One last point. About Coolcaesar's describing non-vandalism as vandalism: at least one of the examples given above is inappropriate; Coolcaesar's edit here most definitely looks to me like reverting vandalism. In a few of the other examples, while I wouldn't necessarily reach a vandalism conclusion, I can see how someone else (e.g., Coolcaesar) might reasonably reach it.

President Lethe 15:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I feel compelled to supplement my comments.


 * While Coolcaesar may not have gone against other Wikipedia rules and guidelines, I don't find that mitigating; also not mitigating in the matter of Coolcaesar's behavior is Ericsaindon2's behavior. When your neighbor sues you for crashing your car through her fence, it doesn't matter that you've always paid your rent and never beaten your kids, while your neighbor has been convicted of possessing pot and has disobeyed housing-association guidelines in building the swingset in her back yard; the point is that you crashed your neighbor's fence. (I'm not drawing any connections between these specific example behaviors and what Coolcaesar and Ericsaindon2 have done. I'm simply pointing out the dissociation.)


 * I'm baffled by the comments left by users who find themselves unable to believe the Coolcaesar has ever been unreasonably and oft repeatedly rude at Wikipedia. The evidence is linked just some paragraphs above their comments.


 * President Lethe 14:20, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by BlankVerse
I'm not involved in this dispute.

There has been no RFC, nor an RFM. This RFaR should be summarily dismissed.

Furthermore, I think that a checkuser should be done comparing user:Mr.Executive with both user:Ericsaindon2 and user:OC31113.


 * A check user was filed with user:Morven by user:Mr.Executive earlier yesterday in an effort to remove any speculation that the two parties are afiliated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.227.173.154 (talk • contribs) (who, by their edit  to the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ericsaindon2/Evidence|Ericsaidon2 RFA evidence

page]], implies that they are user:Ericsaindon2.
 * Even if a checkuser comes up negative or inconclusive, the editing style and wording, plus the style and wording of the spamming of article pages against Coolceasar says that Mr. Executive is Ericsaidon2. BlankVerse 17:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeah right, if it comes up false (which it will) you cannot treat this user like you have treated me. There is no way any of that stuff you have done to him is going to last... --69.227.173.154 00:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Because of the way that my ISP handles it's POPs, I could easily look like three different users that would come up completely negative on a checkuser check. If I wanted to risk inconclusive checkuser results, I could also look like users in two different counties, in four different area codes, up to 30 miles apart. If I started borrowing or paying for internet access from friends, neighbors, work, the local libraries, Kinko's, etc., I could have a dozen or more sockpuppets that would get completely negative results from a checkuser check. That's one reason that doing a check is as much art as science and access to the tool is limited to those who can interpret the results. BlankVerse 09:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Coolceasar occasionally gets grumpy in his edit summaries, and I have even scolded him once for losing his cool, but if I did as much vandal fighting as he does I'd probably get just as grumpy and start leaving snarky edit summaries as well. On the other hand, we share an interest in Southern California topics, so I've seen him do plenty of good article edits, and leave lots of comments on article talk pages. I've never seen any of grumpy comments on article talk pages, where sometimes he has also had very good reasons to be exasperated as well. BlankVerse 17:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by SteveBaker
I am not involved in this dispute.

user:Coolcaesar has left numerous comments on Computer and everything I see there seems very level-headed and reasonable. I have not always agreed with him - but the conversation has always remained civil and polite. SteveBaker 22:28, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by Fahrenheit451
user:Coolcaesar did commit a personal attack and was uncivil in this discussion: Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/archive3 I had no other incidents with him before or after the cited incident.--Fahrenheit451 00:58, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by Rewinn
user:Coolcaesar's edit summary is disparaging to an editor, and his comment at  is both snotty and wrongheaded. For my part, I laughed it off and gave him the snub direct and was satisfied, but since we are here, let me make an additional comment.

I hope it is not inappropriate to note that the intersection of his and my interests is our profession: user:Coolcaesar describes himself as a young lawyer, and I am a not-so-young lawyer, with extensive experience in bar associations. Wikipedia's dispute resolution procedure is a remarkable development the legal profession should study for applications elsewhere. Tools for dispute-resolution can always improve! In this case, I think we can agree on a few basic rules, in particular: I am willing to live by the above code and to apologize when someone tells me I've slipped. Is this an appropriate request to make of user:Coolcaesar? It would be a shame to lose a prolific editor on a question of manners, if that's what this is. rewinn 05:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit summaries must never disparage another editor
 * 2) Edit summaries should rarely if ever name an editor or contain a naughty word
 * 3) An apology goes a long way.


 * I see Coolcaesar apologized very nicely at 05:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC). Thank you. I suggest we drop it and move on. rewinn 21:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I see the Clerk has very helpfully deleted remarks that were inappropriately threaded. Let me re-introduce one point: if this matter had any valid purpose, it was served when its target acknowledged the issue and resolved to do better. Therefore this matter has no further valid purpose and should be closed (rejected). The further complaint by User:69.238.56.207 at 19:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC) lacks factual merit. Let us return to making wikipedia as good as possible. rewinn 23:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by Will Beback
I made a previous comment, but it was moved out of this case by the nominator. Instead of fighting over that, I'll write fresh material.

Since this request has been filed by EricSaindon2's puppet and since Coolcaesar filed a request about ES, it would be typical to merge this case with ES's case. However this RfAr does not fit that mold because this request does not merit arbitration. While CC has used frank language at times, there have never been serious formal complaints - no mediation, no RfC, no AN/I threads. This request has obviously been brought simply as revenge against CC for his RfAr on ES.

CC is a valued, longterm contributor to this project who has my full support. -Will Beback 09:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment by Ericsaindon2
I know I am on block but I am highly involved in this user’s personal attitude, and attacks. I will return to my block once I make this statement, because I feel, since this is the user that blocked me, I need to make a statement when he faces a similar situation. I have, over the past month been harassed by this user. I was involved in a content dispute with him, and he continued to use the slander, and inappropriate language, as exemplified above (but for some reason not all of it is shown above). He degraded me and treated me inhumanely throughout the entire month for just a content dispute. I made no personal attacks against him, but he came at me all the time for reverting uncalled for edits he had made, and treating all my work as vandalism, even though it was not. He seems to, by the statements and proof above, feel that if it doesn’t go his way, he can trash talk the users, and therefore creating disputes which are counter productive. His personal attacks need to stop now, for they are uncalled for, and unmanageable. I feel that mediation would never work because this user has been warned in excess of a dozen times by high Wikipedia figures and admins that his behavior is unacceptable, but continues his trend. He needs a break from Wikipedia to think about what he is doing, and how he can change it to become productive, and stop being the instigator and attacker that he has become on this website. The debate in which I received my Arbitration case for were far less significant and destructive as his have become. My comments were not ruthless, and all my disputes were limited to the one page, whereas this particular user has created chaos and devalued Wikipedia with counter-productivity on over 50 pages, and has involved and attacked 30+ users. I don’t care who was right in the situation over the content dispute, his behavior was downright uncalled for, and needs to be terminated, and treated as such. People are not rag dolls like he has tended to treat them without punishment. Using the profanity used by this user is the worst offense committed on Wikipedia, and people have rights to be treated like people, which is far worse than the easily fixable edits I made with good intentions that got me blocked. Plus, in cases like this, where it was me, sorry is just too late, and there is a point when the word sorry has been abused so many times that it carries no meaning for certain people, like in this case. I urge you to take this case, because the attitude of this user is reckless, and uncalled for, and despite any apologies, it has all been heard before by this user, and still no change. This user can use all the excuses to why he committed these malicious attacks, but in the end, like in my case, it doesn’t matter, it is the harm you created and the people you offended that matters. I don’t think that he should be completely abolished from Wikipedia, for he does make the occasional good edit as stated by users above, but a temporary block would help this user, and give him time to thoroughly understand Wikipedia and its rules and how to treat people. -- Ericsaindon2 09:58, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

 * Arbitrators' opinions are on the main Requests for arbitration page. --Tony Sidaway 13:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/3/0/0)

 * This requst is confusing: evidence of misconduct is not the same thing as prior dispute resolution. It appears there has been none, other than some warnings about rudeness, and this probably does not rise to the level of arbitration yet. In any case, the Ericsaindon2 case is closely related, and any evidence offered there will be considered, so reject. Dmcdevit·t 16:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Reject, but take this evidence into consideration in the Ericsaindon2 case. - SimonP 14:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Reject as above. James F. (talk) 19:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Accept and merge Fred Bauder 22:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)