Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia/Evidence

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Create your own section and do not edit in anybody else's section. Please limit your main evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs and keep responses to other evidence as short as possible. A short, concise presentation will be more effective; posting evidence longer than 1000 words will not help you make your point. Over-long evidence that is not exceptionally easy to understand (like tables) will be trimmed to size or, in extreme cases, simply removed by the Clerks without warning - this could result in your important points being lost, so don't let it happen. Stay focused on the issues raised in the initial statements and on diffs which illustrate relevant behavior.

It is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff in question, or to a short page section; links to the page itself are insufficient. Never link to a page history, an editor's contributions, or a log for all actions of an editor (as those will have changed by the time people click on your links), although a link to a log for a specific article or a specific block log can be useful. Please make sure any page section links are permanent. See simple diff and link guide.

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see the talk page. If you think another editor's evidence is a misrepresentation of the facts, cite the evidence and explain how it is incorrect within your own section. Please do not try to re-factor the page or remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, leave it for the Arbitrators or Clerks to move.

Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as Arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies, Arbitrators vote at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

Edit warring
Just a few representative samples of edit-warring

Jingiby vs. Лилјак on National Liberation War of Macedonia

 * Dozens of reverts on on 16/17 November
 * , relatively new, SPA, multiple different edits to the article on 16 Nov, many of them uncontroversial improvements (grammar corrections etc.), others possibly tendentious
 * , established user and already party of this case, persistent blind reverts of everything Liljak changed.
 * Please note my explanation on Talk:National Liberation War of Macedonia about my somewhat irregular application of protection.
 * Update: Liljak blocked as sock of banned User:Frightner. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Fatmanonthehorse vs. Italiotis on Alexander the Great

 * , renewed outbreak of edit-warring on 18 November

Fatmanonthehorse vs Kapnisma on Macedonia (Greece)

 * edit-warring between User:Kapnisma (6rv in 3 days) vs. User:Fatmanonthehorse (5rv in 2 days), 22-25 November.

BLP violations
Tendentious editing has repeatedly led to serious BLP issues.

Kiro Gligorov

 * Multiple Bulgarian users insisted on inclusion of a contentious passage claiming that Gligorov, the first president of the RoM, had assumed Bulgarian citizenship during the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia in WWII. This story, apparently a meme propagated by some right-wing Bulgarian nationalist groups such as IMRO in order to denigrate the president, was sourced only to primary sources hosted on the IMRO website but had no backing by reliable secondary sources. Among the users edit-warring for its inclusion were: User:ForeignerFromTheEast (, , , also his earlier accounts), and User:Laveol.

Aleksandar Donski

 * the article on this controversial Macedonian (pseudo-?)historian looked like this: after its creation by User:FunkyFly (i.e. User:ForeignerFromTheEast). It had to be repeatedly cleansed by admins (,,, by myself and by Swatjester after OTRS complaints). Users who persistently re-inserted highly negative defamatory material despite admin warnings include: User:Jingiby (, []) and User:Laveol (, note that the latter has since accepted to refrain from such additions ).

Some individual cases
The following is incomplete. By singling out certain editors I'm not claiming they are necessarily the worst; it's just that I haven't got the time and energy to collect evidence about everybody.


 * one of the most persistent long-term edit warriors in the Bulgarian camp, has held up his presence on Wikipedia under multiple accounts since 2004 or 2005 at least (User:FunkyFly, User:Mr. Neutron, probably User:VMORO and possibly also User:AKeckarov). Together, these accounts have collected 12 separate blocks in two years. This user switches accounts whenever his block log gets too cumbersome. He edit-wars at low but persistent levels, rarely crossing 3RR. Just before his most recent block (by myself), I observed:
 * 3rv on 7 Nov 2007; all his previous edits during the last months are also reverts
 * 3rv on 7 Nov 2007
 * 3rv on 6 Nov 2007; previous slow edit-warring all through July and September
 * 3rv between 2-4 Nov 2007
 * 4rv between 30 Oct - 4 Nov
 * 4 (semi-)rv between 28-29 Oct
 * revert-warring on 21-22 Oct 2007
 * - typical case of a tendentious editor, see edits on National Liberation War of Macedonia, heavy reliance on nationalist junk websites as sources (see discussion here)


 * Edit-warring-only accounts
 * attempted to turn the newly founded WikiProject ROMacedonia into an organized edit-warring club, see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject ROMacedonia (and )
 * attempted to turn the newly founded WikiProject ROMacedonia into an organized edit-warring club, see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject ROMacedonia (and )

(to be continued) Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Edit Warring, Personal Attacks and non transparent discussion by User Li4kata
 Removing category, continuing even after asked to stop.     and many more…
 * Non transparent discussion
 * Edit warring
 * Personal attacks
 * comment : “You are crazy”
 * Referring to Macedonian members as victims of Serbian propaganda.

Non-Transparent edits
User Jingby has been has been engaging in a lot of discussions in unknown languages in Wikipedia. Here are some examples.   

It is quite apparent from Jingby’s constant edits to articles such as “National liberation was of Macedonia” that he/she is quite capable of speaking English. The fact that Jingby is deliberately engaging in non-English discussion worries me, as I cannot see any reason why someone would do this unless they do not want people to read what they are planning. As far an I know this is English Wikipedia and all edits have to be in English. Unless someone is conspiring something I don’t know why they would be afraid to write in English.

Violation of 3RR by User: Kapnisma
Besides edit warring many articles such as Template talk:History of the Republic of Macedonia and Macedon, User:Kapnisma recently broke the three revert rule in the article Macedonia (Greece). The user made seven reverts in three days [] and at least three in 24 hours.

Evidence presented by {your user name}
before using the last evidence template, please make a copy for the next person

{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

{Write your assertion here}
Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.