Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Sussexman

''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a Request for checkuser. Please do not modify it .''

Sussexman





 * Code letter: G
 * Supporting evidence:

On the original Robert I ArbCom case an account named User:Isabella84 (two Ls) is mentioned as a likely Robert I (aka Sussexman, David Lauder etc) sockpuppet. I came across a suspicious series of edits by User:Isabela84 (one L) and User:BScar23625 earlier.


 * 16:36 - Isabela84 posts to the talk page of User:Counter-revolutionary, asking him to confirm it is him and not some sockpuppet.
 * 16:36-16:37 - Isabela84 amends the signature on the previous post to that of BScar23625.
 * 16:39-16:44 - BScar23625 further amends the signature on the post made by Isabela84, and makes some remarks about one known Sussexman sockpuppet, and one (User:Olborne) that isn't known as a Sussexman sockpuppet, and a puzzling "et al" implying there are more sockpuppets that might not have been identified.

Further to the comments about further sockpuppets, there's also comments by BScar23625 on User talk:137.205.30.157 regarding User:Robert I, User:Sussexman and User:Christchurch all being the same editor, and those comments are from 2006 which is well before the connection was made by checkuser in February 2008. In addition to Olborne identified in the comment above, there's also the identification of User:Chicheley as another sockpuppet. BScar23625 seems remarkably well informed about the sockpuppets (and other possible sockpuppets), long before anyone else.

Given BScar23625's intimate knowledge of the Sussexman sockpuppets, and "oh shit" moment on Counter-revolutionary's talk page with the Isabela84 account, which is almost certainly connected to the Isabella84 account from the Robert I ArbCom case, I think it might be a good idea for a checkuser to take place to see if these accounts are connected to each other, or any other socks from the Sussexman/Counter-revolutionary sockfarm. Thanks. One Night In Hackney 303  22:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * later. This needs discussion amongst checkusers experienced with the case, and may be kicked up to ArbCom yet. Please hold on a while ... - A l is o n  ❤ 00:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * - this is now actively being discussed by the Arbitration Committee - A l is o n  ❤ 07:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * for now. Thatcher 17:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sussexman



 * Code letter: D or G
 * Supporting evidence: Articles for deletion/Federal Commonwealth Society, Articles for deletion/Diarmuid O'Neill and Arbitration Committee Elections December 2007/Vote/Giano II
 * Code letter: D or G
 * Supporting evidence: Articles for deletion/Federal Commonwealth Society, Articles for deletion/Diarmuid O'Neill and Arbitration Committee Elections December 2007/Vote/Giano II
 * Supporting evidence: Articles for deletion/Federal Commonwealth Society, Articles for deletion/Diarmuid O'Neill and Arbitration Committee Elections December 2007/Vote/Giano II

This may be quite complex, so please bear with me while I try and keep it as concise and to the point as possible, while still providing the information needed. I'm unsure if one person is controlling all four accounts, but there's plenty of evidence connecting them to each other to varying extents.

Sussexman was initially blocked on 20 June 2006 for launching off-Wiki legal action against another editor in regards to Gregory Lauder Frost, more details here (note also it says the same editor was subjected to legal action from Michael Keith Smith, and also see here). Chelsea Tory's account was created on 23 June 2006. With his fifth edit the next day, he remarked that "He has for at least 6 months, conducted a relentless campaign against all articles and individuals connected with the Conservative Monday Club and the Western Goals Institute and his motives are clearly political rather than editorial", which seems remarkably well informed for a "brand new" editor. Him either being a sockpuppet or close associate has been brought up before, for example here and more pertinently here where Essjay (remember him?!) said according to checkuser it was probable he was Sussexman. Quite early on he also embroiled himself in the Gregory Lauder Frost situation. I don't know exactly when or how deep due to the article being deleted, but for example see here and here. He's also been campaigning for Sussexman to be unblocked, for example see here, here, here. Counter-revolutionary mysteriously appealed for an unblock here in August 2007, for no discernible reason. Sussexman posted an unblock request on 24 January 2008, quickly supported by Chelsea Tory, who knows Sussexman will behave and supported by Counter-revolutionary. Interesting, so I decided to investigate further.

The edits of three out of the four accounts listed above have many edits to extremist right-wing Conservative Party members, former members and associated groups such as John R. Pinniger, Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley, Western Goals (UK), Gregory Lauder Frost, Western Goals Institute, Conservative Democratic Alliance, International Monarchist League, Conservative Monday Club, Michael Keith Smith, Lord Nicholas Hervey, Harvey Ward etc

All three active accounts were also used in ArbCom elections in December, in particular Giano's: Arbitration Committee Elections December 2007/Vote/Giano II - Chelsea Tory, Counter-revoltionary and David Lauder.

There's also been !votestacking in contentious AfDs, such as these: Articles for deletion/Diarmuid O'Neill saw all three active accounts !vote to delete - Counter-revolutionary, David Lauder and Chelsea Tory

Articles for deletion/Federal Commonwealth Society saw all three active accounts !vote to keep - Counter-revolutionary, an IP editor (more on that shortly), Chelsea Tory and David Lauder. Note that the IP editor also !voted in this discussion about honorific prefixes, which David Lauder, Chelsea Tory and Counter-revolutionary all !voted in as well.

Staying on the subject of IPs, there's always BT IPs kicking around this set of editors and articles. I'm sure there's many more I've not had chance to track down, but these are telling:
 * - claims two editors are sockpuppets in an AfD debate about the Conservative Democratic Alliance, and reverts on South Maitland coalfields, an article started by Sussexman. Quack!
 * - edits to Western Goals (UK)‎, International Monarchist League, John R. Pinniger, Conservative Democratic Alliance and User talk:Sussexman. Quack!
 * - edits to Western Goals (UK), Conservative Monday Club, Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley and Articles for deletion/Michael Keith Smith. Quack!
 * - edits to Talk:Western Goals (UK), Talk:Western Goals Institute and various places embroiling himself in the Sussexman/Gregory Lauder Frost situation. Quack!
 * - embroiling himself in the Sussexman/Gregory Lauder Frost situation. Quack!
 * - embroiling himself in the Sussexman/Gregory Lauder Frost situation. Quack!
 * - more Sussexman/Gregory Lauder Frost. Quack! This IP seems quite vehement that Sussexman isn't Gregory Lauder Frost, perhaps because he either knows Sussexman's real identity or is associated with Gregory Lauder Frost himself? More on that shortly.
 * - edit to John R. Pinniger‎ and more Sussexman/Gregory Lauder Frost. Quack!
 * - edits to Harvey Ward, Articles for deletion/John R. Pinniger, and (unsurprisingly) more Sussexman/Gregory Lauder Frost. Quack!
 * - edit to Talk:Western Goals Institute, and more Sussexman. Quack!
 * - edit to Western Goals (UK) and talk page, and more Gregory Lauder Frost cary on. Quack!
 * - edits to Bass Rock, Harry Lauder, creates the John Lauder article and creates Robert Lauder of The Bass article, and edits misc others. All four articles edited extensively since by David Lauder, who didn't have an account until 29 November 2006, and who it's more than safe to assume has some family connection to the Lauders. Interesting....
 * - edits to Bass Rock and John Lauder and misc others. As the above IP.
 * - edits to Harry Lauder and Conservative Monday Club. A link between the Lauders and the Conservative Monday Club, of which Gregory Lauder Frost is/was a member. Very interesting, does this mean David Lauder has a connection to Gregory Lauder Frost? Perhaps that explains the comments by similar IP 81.131.37.101?

BT IPs are also linked to David Lauder as well. For example see here, where a member of ArbCom which checkuser confirmed that an IP used for !votestacking in a contentious AfD was David Lauder despite his denials. The plot thickens....

Sussexman Chelsea Tory Counter-revolutionary
 * 18 edits to Western Goals Institute, 17 to Conservative Monday Club, 15 to Western Goals (UK), 14 to Lord Nicholas Hervey, 10 to John R. Pinniger, 2 to the talk page of Conservative Democratic Alliance
 * 79 edits to Conservative Monday Club, 35 to International Monarchist League, 20 to Western Goals Institute, 4 to Michael Keith Smith, 4 to Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley
 * 59 edits to Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley, 39 to Lord Nicholas Hervey, 13 to Talk:Conservative Monday Club


 * John R. Pinniger - Counter-revolutionary 3 edits, Chelsea Tory 1 edit, Sussexman 10 edits
 * Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley - Counter-revolutionary 59 edits, Chelsea Tory 4 edits, Sussexman 5 edits
 * Western Goals (UK) - Chelsea Tory 1 edit (note that the edit in question was changing "hard right" to "far right", which Sussexman and various different IPs had tried to change or remove), Sussexman 15 edits
 * Western Goals Institute - Counter-revolutionary 10 edits, Chelsea Tory 20 edits, Sussexman 18 edits
 * Conservative Democratic Alliance - Counter-revolutionary 3 edits, Chelsea Tory 1 edit, Sussexman 5 edits
 * International Monarchist League - Counter-revolutionary 23 edits, Chelsea Tory 35 edits, Sussexman 9 edits
 * Conservative Monday Club - Counter-revoltionary 30 edits, Chelsea Tory 79 edits, Sussexman 17 edits
 * Michael Keith Smith - Counter-revolutionary 1 edit, Chelsea Tory 4 edits, Sussexman 2 edits
 * Lord Nicholas Hervey - Counter-revolutionary 39 edits, Sussexman 14 edits
 * Harvey Ward - Counter-revolutionary 4 edits, Chelsea Tory 10 edits, Sussexman 3 edits
 * Gregory Lauder Frost - history deleted, perhaps an admin can access the deleted history for the edit counts?

Now I'm more than aware simply editing the same small group of articles doesn't make people sock or meatpuppets of each others, otherwise I'd be a sockpuppet of various editors about Irish republicanism. However there's more evidence that these people are not only very closely associated to the articles they are editing, but it's inconceivable that they don't know each other. The images they have uploaded are very important.


 * Image:Pinniger.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a private photo of Conservative Monday Club member John R. Pinniger taken in 1981.
 * Image:Alfredo Cristiani.jpg - Chelsea Tory is the copyright holder of a photo of Alfredo Cristiani taken at a Western Goals Institute dinner on 25 September 1989
 * Image:WGI Dinner.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo taken at the exact same dinner on 25 September 1989
 * Image:Nicholas Hervey.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Lord Nicholas Hervey taken on 25 September 1989 (exact same dinner possibly? His article says he attended)
 * Image:Szkopiak & Ward.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of another photo taken on 25 September 1989 (exact same dinner again possibly?)
 * Image:Pierre Ceyrac.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo taken at the Western Goals Institute on 12 October 1989
 * Image:WACL Delegates.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Gregory Lauder Frost and another man taken in Brussels in 1990.
 * Image:Border 89.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo which looks like it has Gregory Lauder Frost in it.
 * Image:Young Monday Clubbers.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Gregory Lauder Frost, John R. Pinniger and another man taken in 1980
 * Image:Delegation 91.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Gregory Lauder Frost taken in Croatia in 1991
 * Image:The Lord Sudeley.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley taken in 1987
 * Image:Sudeley rides out.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Merlin Hanbury-Tracy, 7th Baron Sudeley taken in 1988
 * Image:12 March 1990.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of International Monarchist League taken in 1990
 * Image:Monarchist Congress 1990.jpg - Counter-revolutionary is the copyright holder of a photo of Gregory Lauder Frost taken at an International Monarchist League associated event in Warsaw in 1990

Now as you can see, Counter-revolutionary is clearly quite close to the people/groups he edits, and attended the same dinner in 1989 as Chelsea Tory who was also taking photographs. He's got photos of Gregory Lauder Frost over well over a ten year period in England, Warsaw, Croatia and Brussels, he must know him surely?

Other images are quite interesting too, in particular the licenses including punctuation:

Image upload by Chelsea Tory (just the one total upload sadly):
 * "Private amateur photo of President Cristiani taken in London in Sept 1989. No copyright."

Image uploads by David Lauder (there's plenty with a similar summary, small sample follows):
 * "Fading old colour photo of Foulden Village. No copyright."
 * "Private photograph. No copyright."
 * "Private photo taken by me in 1997. No copyright."
 * "Private photo taken in 1984. No copyright."
 * "Private photo taken by me. No copyright."

Sussexman tended to make edits to Scotland and aristocracy related articles such as Frederick Marquis, 1st Earl of Woolton, Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl, Manny Shinwell, Baron Shinwell, Henry of Scotland, while Chelsea Tory doesn't. Is there a reason for this? I believe there is. Both the Chelsea Tory account and David Lauder account are sockpuppets of Sussexman and are controlled by the same person. Chelsea Tory edits the political articles, while David Lauder sticks to the Scotland, aristocratical and Lauder related articles. There's obviously some link between David Lauder and Gregory Lauder Frost, which ties David Lauder into Sussexman and Chelsea Tory. Counter-revolutionary is tied into the whole saga as well, with his clear connection to Gregory Lauder Frost, same concentration of articles, and involvement in the campaign to unblock Sussexman. I feel a checkuser is required to determine exactly who is controlling what accounts in this whole saga, especially considering the !votestacking in AfDs and (worse still) ArbCom elections. One Night In Hackney 303  03:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * - this is a serious quantity of evidence & it's taken some time to process here. Accepting this case on the basis that there is strong evidence of abusive sock-puppetry here. The suggestions of votestacking are particularly worrying. Given that one of the users above has been banned for making RL legal threats in the form of solicitor's letters and is now seeking unblock, supported by the others mentioned above, this certainly warrants addressing - A l is o n  ❤ 07:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ - the following. Note that this does not confirm the people are one, but I can confirm that they have edited from the same computer, sometimes within a minute of each other. There is also another account here which I shall not name as it's unrelated to the evidence above. All of the three accounts below appear to have logged out to edit at various times, though I will not comment on the IP addresses whatsoever per privacy policy as it is unwarranted here.




 * - has also edited from the same computer at the same time and place as the above but not nearly as often. This points more to collusion and meat-puppetry than they being the same individual. Note that this has happened at disparate IP addresses.




 * There are also other ✅ accounts associated with User:Counter-revolutionary which I shall not name as they are unrelated to the evidence above. They certainly edit at the same time and IP address as CR but are not being used abusively. Thus, I am reluctant to disclose these at this time.


 * - it is also confirmed that User:Sussexman has edited anonymously, even though he is still banned. Note that collusion amongst the above accounts was also discussed at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2007/Vote/Giano II and I can confirm that User:Chelsea Tory and User:David Lauder both voted from the same computer within a short period of time of each other when voting at the ArbCom elections. Association was denied at the time. I note also that User:Chelsea Tory canvassed others for the unblocking of Sussexman - A l is o n  ❤ 08:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * - I'm requesting a second checkuser opinion as there have been accusations of bias due to my nationality - A l is o n  ❤ 20:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * another checkuser for second opinion - A l is o n  ❤ 20:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

✅ Considering the level of abuse here, including canvassing, logged out editing, and legal threats, I see no reason to be coy about accounts that currently appear to be well-behaved but are obviously the same individual. Thatcher 12:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the Request for checkuser. Please do not modify it. Subsequent requests related to this user should be made above, in a new section.''