Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Megistias


 * The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.  

In order to remain listed at Requests for comment/User conduct, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 17:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is:, 29 July 2024 (UTC).



Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.

Statement of the dispute
''This is a summary written by users who are concerned by this user's conduct. Users signing other sections ("Response" or "Outside views") should not edit the "Statement of the dispute" section.''

This user (User:Megistias) has been subject of POV pushing, WP:SYNTH and tendentious editing on articles related to Albanians and harassment towards Albanian editors.

Desired outcome
The mentioned user should try and listen to advices given by third opinion users. He should be stopped from creating articles that have a clear POV and are tendentious (most commonly Albanian related articles) - in any way seen appropriate. He should be warned about using references to meet his own ideas (WP:SYNTH). Should voluntarily stop harassing editors when they have a different opinion from his own.

Description
User User:Megistias does not collaborate on article development and does not allow Albanian editors to contribute on articles related or involving Albanians (even Illyrians). He has not respected Third Opinion in at least one occasion and has harassed users who wanted to contribute most recently in Albanian nationalism page, but in other pages as well. He has created the current article on Albanian nationalism and is not allowing other information to be added on the issue accept the information he added (which is more oriented towards original research rather than encyclopedic information).

Evidence of disputed behavior

 * Albanian nationalism - (the article was redirected to National Renaissance of Albania until early September when it took the form it has now by User:Megistias) It has a clear POV, it is superfluous as it leaves out many useful information about the subject and it is "preserved" from "Albanian editors".

Harassment

 * "Take your Albanian gang and scurry off" - Diff
 * "Leave Albanian Gang" - Diff
 * Accusation of harassment without basement - Diff
 * "Ganging up" - [Diff

Pushing POV and arguing on an offensive way

 * Spectacular claim that Illyrians are for certain extinct while it is a disputed issue (and contradicted in the same article) - Diff
 * Creation of the page Albanian nationalism - Diff
 * Defining a movement in a superfluous form - Diff
 * Albanian nationalism as seen by Megistias - Diff
 * Ushtira Clirimtare e Camerise, not listed as a terrorist organisation anywhere - there is also no reference it is connected with Kosovo Liberation Army - Diff
 * "Pseudohistorical claims by the Albanian goverment is circus junk" - Talk Diff
 * "The modern Albanian state supports this crap" - Talk Diff
 * "Only Albanians and Macedonians have such clames" - Talk Diff
 * Biased claims - Article Diff
 * Removal of images (vandalism?) - Article Diff
 * After deleting information, doing research he added it in his own way - Article Diff and Article Diff
 * His POV - Talk Diff
 * Deleting references and re-writing the section in his own view - Article Diff
 * Deleting an old map and replacing it with a new one created - Article Diff
 * Doing the same thing in Albanians article - Article Diff
 * Changing historical evidence - Article diff
 * Misquoting references - Diff
 * Removing references and changing information - Article diff
 * POV pushing on Albanian language - Article Diff
 * Reference removal from Albanian language article - Article Diff

Applicable policies and guidelines

 * WP:Harassment
 * WP:POV pushing
 * WP:SYNTH
 * WP:NPA
 * Probably WP:TE

Evidence of trying to resolve the dispute

 * Request for third opinion - Diff
 * User:Askari Mark 3o - politely trying to convince Megistias on cooperation - Diff
 * User:Visar arifaj requesting cooperation - Diff
 * User:Askari Mark - asking politeness and cooperation again - Diff
 * Anna Comnena trying to avoid Edit warring - Diff
 * Askari Mark trying to warn Megistias -
 * User:Aigest giving his proposal on the issue - Diff
 * Anna Comnena warning for not cooperating - Diff
 * Illyrian issue is a disputed issue (as far as there are contradicting references) - Diff

Evidence of failing to resolve the dispute

 * Not responding to Askari Mark (3o) nor any other user - Diff
 * ...you did show that you understand nothing of the article or our discussion... - Diff
 * Reverting changes and harassment - Diff
 * Reverting information that all other users agreed upon - Diff]
 * Not cooperating even after warning - Diff
 * Assuming bad faith - Diff
 * Response on Illyrian issue - your references do not change my reference - while there was no intention to change any reference just to show that the issue is not certain as it is calmed in the article by Megistias (trolling?) - Diff

Users certifying the basis for this dispute
{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}


 * Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC) (not done yet examining the RfC material above, so no comment yet about endorsing it, but I know from previous very similar conflicts that Megistias has often behaved in a problematic way (as have many of his perennial opponents), so there is certainly a problem to solve.
 * Anna Comnena (talk) 13:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * --Visar Arifaj (talk) 19:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Aigest (talk) 09:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC) The problem with this editor is that he has a personal opinion on an issue and builds an article upon it regardless of what other editors say going more for an OR than a wiki article. Just take a look at differences in all bad edit elements WP:POV WP:TE WP:SYNTH, between Albanian nationalism article  and  all Balkan nationalism related articles  in Wiki (in Alphabetical order) Bosnian nationalism, Bulgarian nationalism, Croatian nationalism, Greek nationalism, Romanian nationalism, Serb nationalism, Slovenian nationalism, and Rise of nationalism under the Ottoman Empire. This was pointed out to the author Megistias in the talk page, but at no result of reflection. What is the worst thing is that even after reaching a consensus between Albanian and Greek editors in topics different topics user Megistias still wants to impose his own version,   not cooperating with any of the editors, a very frustrating behavior which leads again to useless debates, which affect seriously the article and the collaboration spirit which all wiki editors should have.

Response
''This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete. Users signing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Outside Views") should not edit the "Response" section.''


 * "Evidence of disputed behavior"

1.Article was a small paragraph at National Renaissance of Albania,this point for example diff ,now is now.It was a small paragraph but the data regarding it was too great so i made it into an article.Megistias (talk) 18:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Regarding other Balkan nationalism pages this is a proper example Turkish_nationalism to correlate it with the Albanian nationalism artcile in analogies .A small page with two sections.One on generic and the old and one on Today.If worked upon it would be merged with Anatolianism and other articles to compose an article on Turkish Nationalism of today and the old nationalism would receive another name that would indicate its 19th century origin.Megistias (talk) 13:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * And this is its summary "Turkish nationalism is a political ideology that promotes and glorifies the Turkish people, as either a national, ethnic or linguistic group and puts the interests of the state over all others influences, including religious ones."Megistias (talk) 13:55, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Rise of nationalism under the Ottoman Empire is the old nationalism and the modern nationalism is Turkish nationalism Which exactly proves my point.Thankou, just like i did with Albanian nationalism.Megistias (talk) 14:01, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Greek nationalism is a mini article with links to articles to modern Greek nationalism from the Hunta of the 70's to today.Megistias (talk) 14:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * On me "Pushing POV and arguing on an offensive way" my comments after the Diffs.
 * Spectacular claim that Illyrians are for certain extinct while it is a disputed issue (and contradicted in the same article) - DiffCalled Nonsense and nationalistic by Aigest in the Diff .Article section is like this edited by mediff.
 * Creation of the page Albanian nationalism - Diff-I made an article.
 * Defining a movement in a superfluous form - Diff -As the references show Communism made into a systema today its continued
 * Albanian nationalism as seen by Megistias - Diff- That has been rewritten many times
 * Ushtira Clirimtare e Camerise, not listed as a terrorist organisation anywhere - there is also no reference it is connected with Kosovo Liberation Army - Diff -Referenced with an American that Advises Heads of state.
 * "Pseudohistorical claims by the Albanian goverment is circus junk" - Talk Diff- Sorry but it is Aristotle was not Albanian
 * "The modern Albanian state supports this crap" - Talk Diff - As the references say it does but my language was bad, i am sorry
 * "Only Albanians and Macedonians have such clames" - Talk Diff - Its true Albanians learn that Aristotle was Albanian and in RoM that aristotle was Slavic
 * Biased claims - Article Diff - rewritten article with proper sources
 * Removal of images (vandalism?) - Article Diff - rewritten article with proper sources
 * After deleting information, doing research he added it in his own way - Article Diff and Article Diff - rewritten article with proper sources
 * His POV - Talk Diff - Thats the refernece in all Albanian articles regarding origins.
 * Deleting references and re-writing the section in his own view - Article Diff - rewritten article with proper sources
 * Deleting an old map and replacing it with a new one created - Article Diff - I made a discernable map
 * Doing the same thing in Albanians article - Article Diff- I made a discernable map
 * Changing historical evidence - Article diff - In 150 AD that region was the Roman province of Macedon
 * Misquoting references - Diff - I wikified Greeks to Ancient Greeks.They founded it not modern Greeks
 * Removing references and changing information - Article diff - removed a questionable source that has been removed many times,BardHyllis is not used.
 * POV pushing on Albanian language - Article Diff- Thats a resourced paragraph, look in the article in all the next edits
 * Reference removal from Albanian language article - Article Diff - Noel was not a linguist while Gottfried Schramm is one
 * Harassment

Diff on my talk page.First contact with Anna she tells me that i spread Propaganda and that i hate Albanians ."You, my friend, are very active in this "Albanians are not Illyrians" propaganda. I would say, you have real hate toward Albanians". diff on Albanian nationalism,Anna writes."I would not be surprised if it would write "All Albanians are pigs, and they should all burn in hell!".
 * Future Perfect at Sunrise,(what a ridiculous amount of misuse of footnotes in this article. Typical result of an article getting messed up by POV-pushers who can't write.).Is that directed at me? A Pov-Pusher who can't write? Since i wrote most of i take that it is
 * On Albanian nationalism talk page

Pakapshem considers that the article is an attempt to Smear Albanians. Pakapshem assumes an agenda Aigest Megistias (talk) 15:17, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with Aigest. Article is clear attempt at POV pushing in order to smear Albanians in general. It's a mish mash of qoutes who are put together only for the above stated purpose.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ones that live in glasses houses should not throw stones. Tag teaming, narrow level arguments and nationalis advocating is excatly what you, alexikoua, athenean, michale x white, factuarius and many other greek editors do. As soon as you come back from being off wiki for a year, all of a sudden you create this article and notify all of the above to "take a look" at it. Don't try to play others for fools. You agenda is clear.--I Pakapshem (talk) 14:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I could care less how many edits and contributions you have. Why are you guys so interested in editing Albanian articles? Is it because of your altruistic nature? I highly doubt it. All of the greek editors edits in Albanian or Albanian related articles are always done to undermine or to demean Albanian and Albanian related articles, so of course I'll be there to make sure that all of these distortions don't go unchecked.--I Pakapshem (talk) 14:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Megistias, the only lier and misleader here are you. Hoxha was anything but nationalistic. You have zero knowledge of him or his communist regime. Hoxha continously broke relations with Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union and China for not being communist enough. Hoxha's communism is revered even today by hard core commies for being the purest form of Stalinist-Leninist-Marxist Anti-Revisionist Communism. Your behavior, language and intentions are totally uncivil and filled with bad intentions, on top of the fact that you are engaged in an edit war, refusing to compromise over any issue and continously reverting other editor's contributions. You will be reported for all of this stuff.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What a blatant ridiculous lie by you Megistias whose only purpose for this article is to smear Albanians. I have gone through the Albanian education system in Albanian proper and no booke ever mentioned Aristotle or Alexander being Albanian.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Outright ridiculous lie. You need to go and touch and official albanian schoolbook before you even start speaking of them.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The purpose of this page is clear Anna. As we say in Albania, you can't cover the sun with a sift. It is not to inform people in an encyclopedic manner about Albanian nationalism, but rather misinform them through rhetoric, propaganda, half truths and information thrown together in order to give people the specific view Megistias and others have in mind.--I Pakapshem (talk) 20:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What crap, and what's worse is that this Copley character doesn't even back up his crap. He just makes of the wall statemets, like the UCC send a letter to Bush and to US embasiess in Rome and Tirana. He doesn't prove anywhere any of this is true, nor does he prove that the UCC exists. He just makes statetments (very ridiculous ones) whithout backing any of them with any proof whatsoever. Not even an ounce of credibility here. You're going to have to try harder than that Megistias, or as I said the section goes.--I Pakapshem (talk) 21:04, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you mean, Hammond, Ducellier, Cabbanes, Castellan, Stipcevic, Fines, Sedlar, Treadgold, Adams and many others authors see here [34] which say the same thing are pseudo-scientific or they were influenced by communist propaganda?Very patheticAigest (talk) 18:01, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * One me "Evidence of trying to resolve the dispute" comments after the diffs
 * Request for third opinion - Diff- Anna considered the article "text is biased and has a chauvinistic tone" as in this diff
 * User:Askari Mark 3o - politely trying to convince Megistias on cooperation - Diff - its a talk
 * User:Visar arifaj requesting cooperation - Diff - Visar's opinion
 * User:Askari Mark - asking politeness and cooperation again - Diff - we are talking
 * Anna Comnena trying to avoid Edit warring - Diff - Her opinion(note above section her opinion seems to be that i Hate Albanians)
 * Askari Mark trying to warn Megistias - - Telling me to calm down, i did
 * User:Aigest giving his proposal on the issue - Diff, Inappropiate proposals, discussed in the talk page
 * Anna Comnena warning for not cooperating - Diff - her opinion and threat to report me.
 * Illyrian issue is a disputed issue (as far as there are contradicting references) - Diff - Anna supported an opinion on the Illyrian language that was the opposite of what her reference was saying,diff.So she didnt read the reference or lied about it.

Evidence of failing to resolve the dispute
 * Not responding to Askari Mark (3o) nor any other user - Diff - Thats not what the diff shows
 * ...you did show that you understand nothing of the article or our discussion... - Diff -My view supported by refs
 * Reverting changes and harassment - Diff - alreay mentioned in other sections and rewritten
 * Reverting information that all other users agreed upon - Diff] - Here anna removes Refs
 * Not cooperating even after warning - Diff- I was right as i followed the refs-Anna was also threatening me
 * Assuming bad faith - -Of course, her behaviour warranted this opinion as in my talk page and in the article talk page she accussed me of Hating Albanians.
 * 7. Response on Illyrian issue - your references do not change my reference - while there was no intention to change any reference just to show that the issue is not certain as it is calmed in the article by Megistias (trolling?) - Diff- Since Anna used a reference supporting the opposite of what she was saying as i was saying the a few words only survive from Illyrian then she is the one trolling.

Users who endorse this summary:
 * 1) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Megistias (talk • contribs)
 * 2) Alexikoua (talk) 10:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC). I do not agree with expressions that trigger endless battlegrounds, especially from User:I_Pakapshem, descriped here [], like this one.I see that since this user has stopped to 'contribute' in the discussion significant steps have been done to reach some kind of concensus (like part of the lead). I really feel that the one that tried to create a 'hot zone' here was a typical block-record breaker and not User:Megistias with the creation of more than 100 articles in his contribution history.Alexikoua (talk) 10:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Endorse.--Michael X the White (talk) 15:38, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Outside view
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