Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Altowiki/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



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MeredithGitre created a page for Altogen Biosystems. This was deleted as a repost. MeredithGitre then asked the deleting admin about the page. That discussion finished on 1 February 2018 with the article remaining deleted.

The next day 2 February 2018 CarlBjornasson began editing, made 10 edits and waited a week to become autoconfirmed.

CarlBjornasson on 9 February 2018 created a new version at Altogen Inc. to avoid connection with the previous deletions. This version is very much like the deleted version above as can be seen at here. Significantly of note is the second reference used by both. This ref (Roberts, Josh P. (12 August 2014)) mentions Altogen Labs which is a different company to Altogen Biosystems.

Both have edited around Altogen Labs and Altogen Biosystems as if the two companies are the same with CarlBjornasson with CarlBjornasson suggesting a merge at an afd. Both are focused in the one area of editing around biotech.

Where are the refs? is a new account focused in the same area. One of their earliest edits was to remove a speedy from the above Altogen Biosystems page. Then followed up with suggestions of a merger between two seperate companies at afds  as if they were the same as suggested by MeredithGitre's and CarlBjornasson's editing. Where are the refs? then created a new page for Altogen Labs. This was a duplicate of Altogen Labs CRO which had been edited by both MeredithGitre and CarlBjornasson.

CarlBjornasson and Where are the refs? have both been engaged in a bit of similar cleanup of promotion, noting edit summaries.
 * CarlBjornasson "lovely but unsourced"
 * Where are the refs? "lovely advertisements, but not relevant here"
 * CarlBjornasson "grammar and inline cite correction"
 * Where are the refs? "cite correction and some other changes"

If not socks then there is definitly something going on wether meat, colusion or payment. duffbeerforme (talk) 13:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''
 * The behavioral evidence for Where are the refs? is compelling (and I can bring more if anybody wants it), as is the fact that they are using a proxy. One of the socks lied to my face (see User_talk:Biologytx).  The person did some pretty good editing on reagents and the like. Too bad they chose to lie and sock instead of being upfront. Please indef Where are the refs? as another sock. Jytdog (talk) 14:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok. As I noted above I am very bummed about this socking.  This person understands biology and business, and did clean up a bunch of other people's promotion; it is just so bitter to me that somebody who contribute has instead done this bad stuff and absorbed our time cleaning up after them.  But so it goes.
 * in any case this is in addition to what duffbeerforeme wrote.
 * The socks did a pretty good job of not overlapping with one another per the interation analyzer so no smoking guns there.


 * writing style
 * The place where i first thought "sock" was at Articles_for_deletion/Altogen_Labs_CRO and if you look at their comments there, you will see that the writing style of WATR? and CarlBjornasson is very similar:
 * CarlBjornasson: Keep - I did not start the article, but I did edit it substantially. Maybe it should be renamed to just Altogen Labs? If you look at the news sources for "Altogen Labs" it's a far more comprehensive list than for "Altogen Labs CRO". Granted, most of the sources on the current page are kind of crappy, I think a few of them warrant an article (GHP magazine is detailed). I started the Altogen Inc. page because apparently there are two Altogen's (the Inc. I think is more focused on chemicals and the CRO is more so preclinical work), but maybe Altogen Labs CRO should be merged with Altogen Inc.?
 * WATR? Merge and rename - I don't think this is really different from Altogen Biosystems (where does the Inc. even come from?), and the content of both should be merged (and really condensed) into just Altogen Labs. I can make a merged Altogen Labs page (just not right now) and that might be cleaner than this mess. I haven't done much research on this yet, but just from preliminary searches, it seems to be well-known in the biomedical field and has enough coverage (I'm reading the "does not need to be the main topic of the source material" on GNG).
 * Pointing out the specifics:
 * elements of casual style with "crappy", "messy" mixed with really substantial discussion.
 * use of parenthetical comments
 * long sentences
 * use of questions
 * This straightforward and friendly tone also drew me into BiologyTx, eg with this comment they made to me: I assume that the 16 brand names present in the article should say something about how important it is to include specific products. Anyways, I'm not angry at you, your reviewing is critical to the integrity of Wikipedia, but please be more attentive when deleting content (maybe alter it to meet your criteria?). Thanks
 * See the same elements there? Long sentence, parenthetical remarks, the "maybe" question like CarlBjornasson above.


 * userpage
 * the last two socks, CarlBjornasson and WATR? each created their userpage on their first edits as you can see from their oldest contribs (Carl, WATR


 * edit notes
 * "added stuff on X": WATR diff, BiologyTx diff, MeredithGitre diff, diff, diff, diff


 * further to the above on edit notes and what they are doing here..
 * here is a day's work, on June 22 (read from the bottom up)


 * 19:47, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+31)‎ . . A549 cell ‎ (quick fixes - I'll add more stuff sometime later)
 * 19:39, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+41)‎ . . OK cells ‎ (sorting into sections - this summary is getting excessive) (current) [rollback: 3 edits]
 * 19:38, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+560)‎ . . OK cells ‎ (added info and ref about dopaminergic properties)
 * 19:32, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+1,356)‎ . . DU145 ‎ (Expansion and cleanup, adding more info)
 * now goes to Meredith G


 * 18:32, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+257)‎ . . Biotecnol ‎ (added current info on biotecnol's first drug)
 * 18:28, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-414)‎ . . Biotecnol ‎ (no cites whatsoever - added one ref, toned down the article, and made other wording edits)
 * back to Carl B


 * 17:09, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+80)‎ . . Pyxis Corporation ‎ (General cleanup and reorganization - fixed grammar mistakes, tried making it flow a bit better)
 * 16:49, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-7)‎ . . Emcure Pharmaceuticals ‎ (grammar)
 * 16:47, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+175)‎ . . Hetero Drugs ‎ (→‎Violations of FDA Regulations: added more details)
 * 16:46, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+187)‎ . . Hetero Drugs ‎ (Hetero notably has not complied with FDA regulations, moved around content and added stuff where needed)
 * 16:37, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+462)‎ . . Hetero Drugs ‎ (refs added for citation needed tags)
 * 16:31, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-161)‎ . . Hetero Drugs ‎ (lovely advertisements, but not relevant here)
 * (stops for 13 hours - then came back)
 * 03:27, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+345)‎ . . Novo Nordisk ‎ (→‎Sponsorship: added ref for charlie kimball sponsoring)
 * 03:23, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-2)‎ . . Bio-Rad Laboratories ‎ (wikilinks and grammar changes) (current) [rollback: 2 edits]
 * 03:20, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-374)‎ . . Bio-Rad Laboratories ‎ (no need for puffery)
 * 03:19, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+129)‎ . . N User talk:Where are the refs? ‎ (started my talk page with a quote)
 * 03:17, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-2)‎ . . Pfizer ‎ (added titles and publishers, removed defunct ref) (Tag: references removed)
 * 03:11, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+656)‎ . . N User:Where are the refs? ‎ (started my user page) (current)
 * Opens WATR account


 * 02:18, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+129)‎ . . Biomatrica ‎ (added .gov ref for company in summary)
 * 02:14, 22 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-222)‎ . . Biomatrica ‎ (→‎Partnerships and Agreements: removing unnecessary adjectives)
 * starts at Carl B


 * another day's work
 * June 27 (again, start at bottom)


 * 20:12, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+29)‎ . . CK Life Sciences ‎ (words) (current) [rollback: 4 edits]
 * 20:11, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+447)‎ . . CK Life Sciences ‎ (another ref)
 * 20:07, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+170)‎ . . CK Life Sciences ‎ (reuters ref)
 * 20:05, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-539)‎ . . CK Life Sciences ‎ (all of these refs are either defunct or do not even name the company)
 * 19:58, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-3)‎ . . CiteAb ‎ (cleaning up some unnecessary info, and adding some things where they make sense) (current) [rollback: 1 edit]
 * switches to Carl B


 * 18:07, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-36)‎ . . HT1080 ‎ (rewording) (current) [rollback: 1 edit]
 * 18:05, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+2)‎ . . Chromosome conformation capture ‎ (→‎Cancer genome analysis: fixing some wikilinks)
 * 18:02, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+827)‎ . . PANC-1 ‎ (added some more stuff)
 * switches to MeredithGitre


 * 14:56, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+362)‎ . . China Nepstar ‎ (statistics update) (current) [rollback: 2 edits]
 * 14:52, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-18)‎ . . China Nepstar ‎ (grammar and words)
 * 14:46, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+3)‎ . . Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Apollo Sugar Clinics ‎ (darn it, missed one)
 * 14:46, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+6)‎ . . Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Apollo Sugar Clinics ‎ (sorry, I meant Apollo Hospitals, not Apollo Health)
 * 14:45, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+348)‎ . . Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Apollo Sugar Clinics ‎ (my position)
 * 14:43, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+214)‎ . . Egalet ‎ (replaced company source with another)
 * 14:36, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-845)‎ . . Egalet ‎ (→‎Mechanism of action: You don't need to explain injection molding here - condensed a bunch of stuff)
 * 14:30, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-29)‎ . . Mankind Pharma ‎ (→‎Products: more fixes) (current) [rollback: 3 edits]
 * 14:29, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+5)‎ . . Mankind Pharma ‎ (→‎History: wording fixes)
 * 14:28, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-248)‎ . . Mankind Pharma ‎ (removed unsourced and defunct bragging, fixed ref)
 * 13:53, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+847)‎ . . Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Altogen Labs CRO ‎ (more comments)
 * 13:39, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+500)‎ . . Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Altogen Biosystems (3rd nomination) ‎ (comments)
 * back to WATR account


 * (stops for 11 hours)


 * 02:27, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+16)‎ . . A549 cell ‎ (→‎Usage: disambiguation fix) (current) [rollback: 1 edit]
 * switches to MeredithGitre


 * 02:25, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+376)‎ . . Oxford BioMedica ‎ (update on parkinson's therapy) (current) [rollback: 2 edits]
 * 02:22, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-28)‎ . . Oxford BioMedica ‎ (this doesn't have to look hideous)
 * 02:19, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+327)‎ . . Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CapeRay Medical ‎ (→‎CapeRay Medical: update)
 * 00:36, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+63)‎ . . Molecular Partners ‎ (→‎Areas of Focus: forgot the title) (current) [rollback: 4 edits]
 * 00:36, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+405)‎ . . Molecular Partners ‎ (→‎Areas of Focus: added partnership with AstraZeneca)
 * 00:30, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+2)‎ . . Molecular Partners ‎ (updating leadership with info from cite I added previously)
 * 00:28, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+401)‎ . . Molecular Partners ‎ (→‎History: added info on two cancer products in clinical testing)
 * 00:20, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-17)‎ . . Rakuto Kasei ‎ (general edits) (current) [rollback: 2 edits]
 * 00:17, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (-11)‎ . . Feed additive ‎ (what an egregious first line) (current) [rollback: 1 edit]
 * 00:16, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (0)‎ . . Rakuto Kasei ‎ (feed additives wikilink)
 * 00:14, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+337)‎ . . Agricen ‎ (→‎Products: added stuff on Titan XC) (current) [rollback: 1 edit]
 * 00:08, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+300)‎ . . Catabasis Pharmaceuticals ‎ (cite correction and some other changes)
 * 00:04, 27 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+330)‎ . . Catabasis Pharmaceuticals ‎ (added first ref that's not directly from Catabasis about their drug)
 * 23:59, 26 June 2018 (diff | hist) . . (+526)‎ . . Hemispherx Biopharma ‎ (update on ampligen)
 * starts at WATR account


 * summary
 * All that is pretty compelling, to me. No killer smoking gun, but the topics, the timing, the same rapid fire improvements on biotech articles, the style... its the same person as far as I can tell.


 * Btw is a sock of somebody, maybe this person. Their second contrib after creating their userpage was to speedy a page for PROMO, with edit note flagged for promotional....really only a sentence or 2 nonpromo here
 * Jytdog (talk) 01:59, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * The following accounts are ✅:
 * . Where are the refs? is /; they are using only proxies. Please move case to Altowiki.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:58, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Page moved. I'm leaving this open pending behavioural evaluation of . Sir Sputnik (talk) 17:28, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
 * - This is likely to all be person (or possibly a group of meatpuppets), but there's some relevant evidence I can't see. Could I get an admin to check Altogen Labs, Altogen Labs CRO, and Altogen Biosystems? There's two thing I'm looking for here: Strong differences between the pages that might suggest that the accounts are unrelated, and a break down of which account created which versions of these articles. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:05, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Altogen Labs CRO was created by in 2014, and was stable to the start of 2018. It was then edited by  and, and deleted after discussion.
 * Altogen Biosystems was created by in 2014. It was edited once by, a sock of Sockpuppet investigations/Sibtain 007. It was deleted in 2014 after discussion. It was recreated in 2018 by MeredithGitre, edited by CalBjornasson, and deleted after another discussion.
 * Altogen Labs was created by in 2011 and speedy deleted. It was recreated on 1 July 18 by, with an edit summary "starting a merged page" and referring to the two recent deletion discussions.
 * None of the articles are similar at all. It appears the first two were intended to cover separate divisions of Altogen's operations, while the third was intended to combine the first two after they were deleted. The older deleted versions are also not similar at all.
 * - I'll leave the conclusions to you, Sir Sputnik, since you've likely looked at this more closely than I have, but let me know if I can be of further assistance. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:13, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Altogen Labs CRO was created by in 2014, and was stable to the start of 2018. It was then edited by  and, and deleted after discussion.
 * Altogen Biosystems was created by in 2014. It was edited once by, a sock of Sockpuppet investigations/Sibtain 007. It was deleted in 2014 after discussion. It was recreated in 2018 by MeredithGitre, edited by CalBjornasson, and deleted after another discussion.
 * Altogen Labs was created by in 2011 and speedy deleted. It was recreated on 1 July 18 by, with an edit summary "starting a merged page" and referring to the two recent deletion discussions.
 * None of the articles are similar at all. It appears the first two were intended to cover separate divisions of Altogen's operations, while the third was intended to combine the first two after they were deleted. The older deleted versions are also not similar at all.
 * - I'll leave the conclusions to you, Sir Sputnik, since you've likely looked at this more closely than I have, but let me know if I can be of further assistance. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:13, 10 July 2018 (UTC)


 * - Since you offered, could you go into a little more detail on Where are the refs? There editing looks suspicious, but I'm struggling to find a smoking gun. Sir Sputnik (talk) 00:07, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
 * - No smoking gun, but too many little things that don't quite add up paired with an interest in Altogen and I'm inclined to say Where are the refs? is also a sock. Please block them indefinitely. Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:21, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Blocked. I've also regex salted Altogen and added altogen.com and altogenlabs.com to the spam blacklist. MER-C 15:07, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Tagging and closing. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:25, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

This is a sockpuppet army that is being used to create, re-create and maintain promotional articles on non notable biomedical labs. There are four AFD's up at present, and these accounts are recreating articles while AFD's are ongoing. This is probably a paid project and the operators of these accounts are so called SEO workers. I believe that most of the editing may be ongoing via proxy, so even if Checkuser results are negative for an account WP:DUCK should apply. 2Joules (talk) 05:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 * @User:DoRD Altogen Labs CRO was created by Kessypeshoo, and edited by Carlbjornasson to include promotional content. It came under threat and Carl created Altogen Biosystems to make sure that the promotional article remains online. When that too was AfD'ed User Were are refs created Altogen Labs with similar promotional material. My surmise is that all these users are run by the same paid editor.2Joules (talk) 14:28, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * diffsneeded ​—DoRD (talk)​ 11:56, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 * On further review, this should probably be copied/merged into Sockpuppet investigations/Altowiki rather than remaining as a separate case. What are your thoughts, and ? ​—DoRD (talk)​ 14:40, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This is likely to be the same person, so I'm placing this on hold pending an admin request in the other case. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:01, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * - Could an admin clerk please merge this into Sockpuppet investigations/Altowiki? Sir Sputnik (talk) 00:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  18:35, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Closing. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:57, 17 July 2018 (UTC)